From bill.mandel@unistudios.com  Fri Apr 20 14:50:58 2001
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From: "Mandel, Bill" <bill.mandel@unistudios.com>
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Subject: [M4IF Technotes] FW: [M4IF Infolist] MPEG-4 and MHP and SMIL?
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(moved over)


This has been an interesting thread. Are we seeing a divergence of specs with similar user experience goals? I'd like to hear some comments comparing how user experiences/apps are developed in addition to how the various formats overlap. 


  Technology      Implementation/Authoring       Timeframe
     MHP             Java or (Bean Tool?)          Today?
    MPEG4           Scripting (BIFS Tool?)        <1 year
   SMIL2.0           Handcoding or Tool           Ongoing
    Flash              Authoring Tool             Ongoing
 DHTML/ActiveX          Handcoding?               Ongoing


Are there comparison(s) to be made between BIFS and SMIL? 


Regards,
Bill Mandel



From ayerkes@gmvnetwork.com  Fri Apr 27 22:15:23 2001
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Subject: [M4IF Technotes] DMIF and uuData
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Hello all,

We have implemented a DMIF instance (apart from any comittee sources)
that we believe is commercially viable.  It's a C API that uses an XML
configuration.  The DMIF specification makes it possible to write such
an API enabling applications to stream MPEG-4 without knowing about
transports or protocols.  It has gone well.  We have written some
sample code with it, and it fully complies with DMIF.  The development
of DMIF represents significant change in the design of media
infrstructure when it becomes mainstream, because it allows a
beautiful sharing of code between applications.  I am confident that,
IP issues aside, DMIF will become the preeminent API for writing
streaming apps, because it provides an amicable divorce between code
that implements transport and code that implements the 'value',
presentation, player, IPMP, and other code.

However, I noticed one thing that makes DMIF more complicated to
adhere to if you don't know what application your DMIF instance will
be communicating with.  In our case, our DMIF is meant to be sold as a
component.  Perhaps no-one else plans to do this, but we wanted to
mention our problem in hopes that someone else may benefit from
sharing experience about this matter.  I propose a problem and one
possible solution.  I am interested in hearing comments both about our
view of this problem and our intended solution.

The problem as I see it is that uuData in it's many forms throughout
the specification of the DMIF Application interface is only opaque
data.  Even though this data is meant for interpretation by the
application and not by DMIF, conforming applications eventually need
to settle on a form for this data both to prevent misinterpretation by
incompatible DMIF applications which implement the same protocol, and
to facilitate good communication between DMIF applications that are
meant to be compatible.  I have several reasons for thinking this:

1) A vendor may wish to implement a DMIF service layer (part of a
"peer application," running on the same computer that reads a certain
filetype and delivers data to the DAI layer of the calling
application. The generaic service provider needs a way to interface
with potentially many Originating DMIF peer applications.

2) In 14496-6.10.4.1, it is specified that the DMIF user 'might'
provide additional information such as client credentials in uuData.
A media-unaware transport agent (such as a firewall tunnel or similar)
may need to check credentials before admission to the firewalled
environment.  This necessitates an application independent method at
least for credentials signalling.  In HTTP and RTSP, this is handled
with a WWW-Authenticate response-header, which allows any HTTP-enabled
application to interact in a seamless manner with different
authentication systems of which it is aware.  This does not limit
application freedom very much.  Vendors still have the opportunity to
use any available authentication mechanism (nothing is specified about
what mechanism to use), it simply allows the mechanism and it's
associated data to be clearly identified.

3) In 14496-6.10.4.5, the uuDataIn field provides information about
the channels requested.  This information is important when individual
elementary streams contain different parts of a presentation.  An
example of this would be a presentation containing several JFIF images
connected by hyperlinks, such as the menu system for a kiosk.
Although this information is "opaque to the delivery layer", it is not
opaque to the remote DMIF application.  Again, an identification of
what data has been sent should also be sent in a standard form,
probably a MIME type preceeding the data.  Again, This is not too much
to ask, and provides the benefit of letting the peer DMIF application
know what to expect.  Even better would be the specification of a
requested ES_ID form and position.  This would allow (for example) a
disk DMIF instance to correctly identify a requested elementary stream
in a uniform way.  It would also allow two DMIF peers made by
different companies to dicuss a specific elementary stream, even if
they were not 'born' compatible.

4) In 14496-6.10.4.6, the specification states that the ES_ID may be
present in the return uuData.  It's presence and form (2 bytes,
network byte order?) should be specified, as well as where it can be
found in the uuData should be specified.  This makes it possible for
an application to silently ignore most of the opaque data that it
doesn't understand, but still retrieve the ES_ID.

5) In 14496-6.10.4.9, as with the other uuData fields, this one
carries no indication of it's contents.  The problem here is that both
a local DMIF scenario, and a remote instance have need of the
information contained therein.  This field has been implemented as
four-byte little endian integers and as text strings.  It would be
nice to get an indication of the control scheme in use.  An 'integer'
scheme would not be pleased to get the string 'PLAY\0' and likewise, a
DMIF peer implemented to expect null terminated strings would be
imperiled by the reception of '\010TEARDOWN' (a string with the length
information in front).

While one might envision several solutions, I would propose that uuData
objects follow HTTP style rules:

At least a 'Content-Type: ...' header must be present before any data,
but any number of response headers are allowed.  Response headers are
terminated by a blank line.  Any data, binary, ASCII, opaque or
otherwise may follow.  The Content-Length header is never needed in
this scenario because the length of the object is specified in the
DMIF primitive itself.  The payload part of the Content-Type header
should be a textural MIME type.

I also propose that the HTTP style WWW-Authenticate scheme be used in
the ServiceAttach and ServiceDetach (when attachment is denied).

I further propose that ES_ID, when present, shall be sent among the
headers as mpeg4-esid, or mpeg4-esids if there are multiples (as
sugguested in the draft-singer-mpeg4-ip-02 IETF draft.

I wanted to gather comments and see if anyone else is like minded.
Perhaps, this type of discussion can be the basis for either a formal
or informal rule with regard to those pesky opaque bytes.

References

Title: A Framework for the delivery of MPEG-4 over IP-based Protocols
Authors: D. Singer, Y Lim
URL:
http://www.ietf.cnri.reston.va.us/internet-drafts/draft-singer-mpeg4-ip-02.txt

Title: Real Time Streaming Protocol
Authors: H. Schulzrinne
URL: http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/Orig/rfc2326.txt

Title: Hypertext Transfer Protocol
Authors: R. Fielding, J. Gettys, J Mogul, H. Frystyk, L. Masinter, P. Leach,
T. Berners-Lee
URL: http://www.freesoft.org/CIE/RFC/Orig/rfc2616.txt

Art Yerkes
Chief Software Architect
GMV Network


-- 
HTTP_TRACE( "RTSPSession has died of snarfage.\n" )
-- Anonymous C source file
#define SS_USR      6        /* The user is broken           */
-- Anonymous Header File



From LMing@tvia.com  Tue May  1 20:47:55 2001
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Hi, All,

I have a question about the scalability in MPEG4. If "ref_select_code" is 1.
What are
the reference Vops (backward + forward) for enhancement Vops in the
following
example?

        I    B   P  B   P  B
base |    |    |    |    |    |
        -------------------------------------
enh     |    |    |    |    |
          P   B  B   B  B

Regards,

Lei
----------------------------------
Lei Ming
Tvia Inc.
(408)982-8588 ext. 162


From axel.binder@philips.com  Mon May  7 22:52:02 2001
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Subject: [M4IF Technotes] gray shapes
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Hi together,

there is a filter defined for subsampling binary shapes when they are applied to
chrominance planes. Is there a similar filter defined for gray shapes?
Take the average, take the maximum alpha, ...?

regards

axel binder


=====================================================
Axel Binder                     Philips Starnberg
Development Manager Software    Petersbrunner Str. 17
                                D-82319 Starnberg
phone:  +49 8151 270 108        Germany
fax:    +49 8151 270 200
mobile: +49 172 92 18 623
e-mail: axel.binder@philips.com
=====================================================

From ramki@emuzed.com  Tue May 15 10:38:53 2001
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Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4/H.263 Test Sequences!
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Hi,
 I am looking for MPEG-4/H.263 test sequences of CIF/SIF size at a frame =
rate of 25/30.=20

Can some one suggest the URLs from where these sequences can be =
downloaded?

Thanks in advance,
regards,
ramkishor

Architect - Video
Multimedia Technologies Division
Emuzed Bangalore Division
IndiraNagar,Bangalore
www.emuzed.com


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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#c0c0c0>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;I am looking for MPEG-4/H.263 =
test sequences=20
of CIF/SIF size at a frame rate of 25/30. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can some one suggest the URLs from =
where these=20
sequences can be downloaded?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ramkishor</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Architect - Video<BR>Multimedia =
Technologies=20
Division<BR>Emuzed Bangalore Division<BR>IndiraNagar,Bangalore<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.emuzed.com">www.emuzed.com</A><BR></DIV></FONT></BODY>=
</HTML>

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You can get some of them from
http://standard.pictel.com/ftp/video-site/sequences
and some from http://kbs.cs.tu-berlin.de/~stewe/vceg/sequences.htm
=20
Best Regards,
=20
-Gary Sullivan

-----Original Message-----
From: Ramkishor Korada [mailto:ramki@emuzed.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:39 AM
To: technotes@lists.m4if.org
Subject: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4/H.263 Test Sequences!


Hi,
 I am looking for MPEG-4/H.263 test sequences of CIF/SIF size at a frame
rate of 25/30.=20
=20
Can some one suggest the URLs from where these sequences can be
downloaded?
=20
Thanks in advance,
regards,
ramkishor
=20
Architect - Video
Multimedia Technologies Division
Emuzed Bangalore Division
IndiraNagar,Bangalore
www.emuzed.com



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<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#c0c0c0>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D676383515-15052001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>You=20
can get some of them from <A=20
href=3D"http://standard.pictel.com/ftp/video-site/sequences">http://stand=
ard.pictel.com/ftp/video-site/sequences</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D676383515-15052001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>and=20
some from <A=20
href=3D"http://kbs.cs.tu-berlin.de/~stewe/vceg/sequences.htm">http://kbs.=
cs.tu-berlin.de/~stewe/vceg/sequences.htm</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D676383515-15052001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D676383515-15052001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Best=20
Regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D676383515-15052001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D676383515-15052001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>-Gary=20
Sullivan</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ramkishor Korada=20
  [mailto:ramki@emuzed.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 15, 2001 7:39=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> technotes@lists.m4if.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [M4IF =
Technotes]=20
  MPEG-4/H.263 Test Sequences!<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;I am looking for MPEG-4/H.263 =
test=20
  sequences of CIF/SIF size at a frame rate of 25/30. </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Can some one suggest the URLs from =
where these=20
  sequences can be downloaded?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>regards,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>ramkishor</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Architect - Video<BR>Multimedia =
Technologies=20
  Division<BR>Emuzed Bangalore Division<BR>IndiraNagar,Bangalore<BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.emuzed.com">www.emuzed.com</A><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From mikael.reichel@culinaire.se  Wed May 23 12:14:18 2001
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From: "Mikael Reichel" <mikael.reichel@culinaire.se>
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Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Watkinson MPEG4 seminar in June, Switzerland
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All!=20
F.Y.I John Watkinson is holding his two-day MPEG4 technical seminar on =
June 18-19 in Vevey, Switzerland.=20
This event is just prior to the MITIL conference/show running on to the =
20-23 of June. Special package offer available.
=20
For full details, downloads etc on the MPEG for seminar please visit =
www.culinaire.se=20
=20
Alternatively mail me and I will send you the required information and =
registration forms.

Should you not be able to attend the event but interested to do so when =
and if offered closer to you, let me know as the level of interest has =
direct bearing on us setting this up.

John=B4s book on MPEG4 is being printed now and released in September. =
Publisher is, as usual, Focal Press.

Kind regards
Mikael.Reichel@culinaire.se=20
John Watkinson & Associates
_________________________________________________________________
"I do not distinguish by the eye but by the mind which is the proper =
judge of man",=20
Seneca. 8 B.C.- 65 A.D.
"I know but one freedom & that is the freedom of the mind" -- Antoine de =
Saint-Exupery
"The future of television is the Internet" Mike 1993 A.D.
"Knowledge is not knowledge until someone else knows you know" Lucilius =
124 B.C
"A cynic is what people who can=B4t see whats coming is calling those =
that can" Watkinson 01
Phone/fax/voicemail +46-(0)8-541 31500 Mobile +46(0)708-541792
Address; Ytterbystrand 6, S-185 94 Vaxholm, SWEDEN
_________________________________________________________________





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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>
<DIV>All!&nbsp;<BR>F.Y.I John Watkinson is holding his two-day MPEG4 =
technical=20
seminar on June 18-19 in Vevey, Switzerland. <BR>This event is just =
prior to the=20
<A href=3D"http://www.mitil.org">MITIL </A>conference/show running on to =
the 20-23=20
of June. Special package offer available.<BR>&nbsp;<BR>For full details, =

downloads etc on the MPEG for seminar please visit <A=20
href=3D"http://www.culinaire.se">www.culinaire.se</A> =
<BR>&nbsp;<BR>Alternatively=20
mail me and I will send you the required information and registration=20
forms.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Should you not be able to attend the event =
but&nbsp;interested&nbsp;to do=20
so when and if offered closer to you, let me know as&nbsp;the level of =
interest=20
has direct&nbsp;bearing on us setting this up.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>John=B4s book on MPEG4 is being printed now and released in =
September.=20
Publisher is, as usual, Focal Press.</DIV>
<DIV><BR>Kind regards<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:Mikael.Reichel@culinaire.se">Mikael.Reichel@culinaire.se</=
A>&nbsp;<BR>John=20
Watkinson &amp;=20
Associates<BR></FONT></FONT>_____________________________________________=
____________________<BR>"I=20
do not distinguish by the eye but by the mind which is the proper judge =
of man",=20
<BR>Seneca. 8 B.C.- 65 A.D.<BR>"I know but one freedom &amp; that is the =
freedom=20
of the mind" -- Antoine de Saint-Exupery<BR>"The future of television is =
the=20
Internet" Mike 1993 A.D.<BR>"Knowledge is not knowledge until someone =
else knows=20
you know" Lucilius 124 B.C<BR>"A cynic is what people who can=B4t see =
whats coming=20
is calling those that can" Watkinson 01<BR>Phone/fax/voicemail =
+46-(0)8-541=20
31500 Mobile +46(0)708-541792<BR>Address; Ytterbystrand 6, S-185 94 =
Vaxholm,=20
SWEDEN<BR>_______________________________________________________________=
__</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From lcheng61@hotmail.com  Wed May 30 18:54:08 2001
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From: "Liang Cheng" <lcheng61@hotmail.com>
To: technotes@lists.m4if.org
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Subject: [M4IF Technotes] help about 14496-1 version 2
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<html><DIV>
<P>Dear all,</P>
<P>Now we met a trouble when we studied the interactivities between MPEG-4 node and human.&nbsp; We are unfortunately using 14496-1:1999(E) Date 1998-12-18, and the serial number of this document is N2501.&nbsp; Obviously, it is MPEG-4 system on version 1.&nbsp; </P>
<P>We just heard the version 2 has already come up and it includes more advanced user interaction function.&nbsp; We look forward to obtaining it.&nbsp; Can someone of you tell me where we can buy the MPEG-4 standard serials in version 2?&nbsp; We will be appreciate it if you may help us.</P>
<P>Liang</P>
<P><BR><BR>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><br clear=all><hr>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <a href="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</a>.<br></p></html>

From rkoenen@intertrust.com  Fri Jun  1 02:43:50 2001
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From: Rob Koenen <rkoenen@intertrust.com>
To: Liang Cheng <lcheng61@hotmail.com>, technotes@lists.m4if.org
Cc: "Olivier Avaro (E-mail 2)" <olivier.avaro@attglobal.net>
Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] help about 14496-1 version 2
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<http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?ICS1=35&ICS2=4
0&ICS3=0&CSNUMBER=24462>
http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?ICS1=35&ICS2=40
&ICS3=0&CSNUMBER=24462
links to 14496-1:1999 - the 1999 version of MPEG-4 Systems
 
Olivier, does that include Version 2?
If not, when will the 2000 edition be available from ISO?
 
Thanks,
Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: Liang Cheng [mailto:lcheng61@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 30 May, 2001 15:54
To: technotes@lists.m4if.org
Subject: [M4IF Technotes] help about 14496-1 version 2



Dear all,

Now we met a trouble when we studied the interactivities between MPEG-4 node
and human.  We are unfortunately using 14496-1:1999(E) Date 1998-12-18, and
the serial number of this document is N2501.  Obviously, it is MPEG-4 system
on version 1.  

We just heard the version 2 has already come up and it includes more
advanced user interaction function.  We look forward to obtaining it.  Can
someone of you tell me where we can buy the MPEG-4 standard serials in
version 2?  We will be appreciate it if you may help us.

Liang



 

 

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Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff><A=20
href=3D"http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?ICS=
1=3D35&amp;ICS2=3D40&amp;ICS3=3D0&amp;CSNUMBER=3D24462"><FONT=20
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?IC=
S1=3D35&amp;ICS2=3D40&amp;ICS3=3D0&amp;CSNUMBER=3D24462</FONT></A></FONT=
></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>links=20
to 14496-1:1999 - the 1999 version of MPEG-4 =
Systems</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Olivier, does that include Version 2?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>If=20
not, when will the 2000 edition be available from =
ISO?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Thanks,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Rob</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Liang Cheng=20
  [mailto:lcheng61@hotmail.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 30 May, 2001 =

  15:54<BR><B>To:</B> technotes@lists.m4if.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [M4IF =

  Technotes] help about 14496-1 version 2<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P>Dear all,</P>
  <P>Now we met a trouble when we studied the interactivities between =
MPEG-4=20
  node and human.&nbsp; We are unfortunately using 14496-1:1999(E) Date =

  1998-12-18, and the serial number of this document is N2501.&nbsp; =
Obviously,=20
  it is MPEG-4 system on version 1.&nbsp; </P>
  <P>We just heard the version 2 has already come up and it includes =
more=20
  advanced user interaction function.&nbsp; We look forward to =
obtaining=20
  it.&nbsp; Can someone of you tell me where we can buy the MPEG-4 =
standard=20
  serials in version 2?&nbsp; We will be appreciate it if you may help =
us.</P>
  <P>Liang</P>
  <P><BR><BR>&nbsp;</P></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
  <HR>
  Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <A=20
  href=3D"http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>.<BR>
  <P></P>_______________________________________________ Technotes =
mailing list=20
  Technotes@lists.m4if.org=20
http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HT=
ML>

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From olivier.avaro@francetelecom.com  Sat Jun  2 20:03:44 2001
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From: "AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH" <olivier.avaro@francetelecom.com>
To: "'Rob Koenen'" <rkoenen@intertrust.com>,
   "'Liang Cheng'" <lcheng61@hotmail.com>, <technotes@lists.m4if.org>
Cc: "'Olivier Avaro \(E-mail 2\)'" <olivier.avaro@attglobal.net>
Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] help about 14496-1 version 2
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2001 01:31:59 +0200
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Hi all,
  Olivier, does that include Version 2? 
  Yes.
   
  If not, when will the 2000 edition be available from ISO? 
  First, it's not 2000 but 2001.
  The ISO secretariat is waiting for the proof of 14496-1:2001 from ITTF.
  So it should be here soon.
  cu,
  O.
   

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<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D485542923-02062001>Hi all,</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2>Olivier, does that include Version 2?<SPAN=20
  =
class=3D485542923-02062001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D485542923-02062001>Yes.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  =
class=3D485542923-02062001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2>If not, when will the 2000 edition be available from =
ISO?<SPAN=20
  =
class=3D485542923-02062001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV=
>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D485542923-02062001>First, it's not 2000 but=20
  2001.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D485542923-02062001>The ISO secretariat is=20
  wa</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT=20
  face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D485542923-02062001><FONT size=3D2>iting for the proof of =
14496-1:2001 from=20
  ITTF.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D485542923-02062001><FONT size=3D2>So it should =
be here=20
  soon.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D485542923-02062001><FONT=20
  size=3D2>cu,</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D471570706-01062001><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
  size=3D2><SPAN class=3D485542923-02062001><FONT size=3D2>O.</DIV>
  =
<DIV></FONT>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><=
/BODY></HTML>

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From Jeyur.Patel@Mysoremail.ltitl.com  Mon Jun  4 03:02:55 2001
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Dear all,

We have a basic doubt about MPEG-4 visual encoder and decoder Verification Model
Software.
We have got two Reference software for MPEG-4 visual natural CODECs, supplied
with MPEG-4 standard ISO/IEC 14496-5, one is implementation of MPEG-4 visual
natural encoder & decoder in 'ANSI C' and other is implementation of same in
C++.
We would like to know the Visual Profile and Level implementated in these
Reference Software.

Does it support Visual Simple Profile @ Level 3 ?

Regards,
Jeyur



From rudinei@icmc.sc.usp.br  Mon Jun  4 13:22:27 2001
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From: Rudinei Goularte <rudinei@icmc.sc.usp.br>
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Hi all!

I've tried to compile the IM1Player (core)  released by ISO as the
MPEG-4 reference software at:
http://isotc.iso.ch/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2489/Ittf_Home/PubliclyAvailableStandards.htm/

(look for 14496-5).

I'm using Microsoft Visual C ++ v. 5.0 under Windows 98.

The problem is that the compiler returns errors (see below). Fixing (I
think) some parts of the code I found that some methods are not
implemented. Is it true? I have to "fill in the blanks"? Or have ISO
relesead a wrong version?
Can someone help-me?

Thanks in advance.

Rudinei.

"
DMIFClientFilter.cpp
..\..\Include\ztl.h(233) : error C2678: binary '==' : no operator
defined which takes a left-hand operand of type 'struct McteSlot' (or
there is no acceptable conversion)
FlexDmux.cpp
..\..\Include\ztl.h(233) : error C2678: binary '==' : no operator
defined which takes a left-hand operand of type 'struct McteSlot' (or
there is no acceptable conversion)
MyChannel.cpp
..\..\Include\ztl.h(233) : error C2678: binary '==' : no operator
defined which takes a left-hand operand of type 'struct McteSlot' (or
there is no acceptable conversion)
Error executing cl.exe.
"



From jean-claude.dufourd@enst.fr  Tue Jun  5 04:04:05 2001
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Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] mpeg-4 referece software
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Rudinei Goularte wrote:
> I'm using Microsoft Visual C ++ v. 5.0 under Windows 98.

I have used only VC++ 6 for a long time. I believe you have to use v6 to
compile the Systems reference software.

Best regards
JC
-- 
Jean-Claude Dufourd       @======================================@
ENST, Dept COMELEC             The wing, over the big rock...
46, rue Barrault          @======================================@
75013 Paris                Tel: +33145817807    Fax: +33145804036

From yossi@neomagic.co.il  Tue Jun  5 09:01:08 2001
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Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Method 1 Quantisation
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Sirs,

MPEG4 Video Verification Model (VM 16.0) presents two quantisation methods:
H263 and MPEG4 (pp. 61-63).
Section 3.4.4.2 describes Method 1 (H263), where Intra DC quantisation is
level = dc_coeff // 8
Section 3.4.5.1.1 describes Method 2 (MPEG4), where Intra DC quantisation is
level = dc_coeff//dc_scaler, where dc_scaler is a non-linear scaler based on
Qp.
However, Section 3.4.5.1.1 states, "Note: This section is valid for H.263
quantisation also."

Is the Intra DC quantisation method presented in Sec. 3.4.4.2 incorrect? In
particular, I am looking at the Simple Profile that allows only Method 1 for
quantization (see Table 9-1 in Part 2 of the MPEG4 Standard, page 201).
Should Intra DC quantisation for Simple Profile follow Section 3.4.4.2 or
Section 3.4.5.1.1?

Thank you,
Yossi Shain
NeoMagic Israel


From peterh@videospheres.com  Tue Jun  5 09:26:49 2001
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From: "Peter Haighton" <peterh@videospheres.com>
To: "Yossi" <yossi@neomagic.co.il>, <technotes@lists.m4if.org>
Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Method 1 Quantisation
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Hi Yossi,

The standard states that

level = dc_coeff//dc_scaler but it also says that for
H.263 (short header=1) dc_scaler is always 8
so that means that both sections are correct.

Hope this helps

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org
[mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Yossi
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 10:02 AM
To: technotes@lists.m4if.org
Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Method 1 Quantisation


Sirs,

MPEG4 Video Verification Model (VM 16.0) presents two quantisation methods:
H263 and MPEG4 (pp. 61-63).
Section 3.4.4.2 describes Method 1 (H263), where Intra DC quantisation is
level = dc_coeff // 8
Section 3.4.5.1.1 describes Method 2 (MPEG4), where Intra DC quantisation is
level = dc_coeff//dc_scaler, where dc_scaler is a non-linear scaler based on
Qp.
However, Section 3.4.5.1.1 states, "Note: This section is valid for H.263
quantisation also."

Is the Intra DC quantisation method presented in Sec. 3.4.4.2 incorrect? In
particular, I am looking at the Simple Profile that allows only Method 1 for
quantization (see Table 9-1 in Part 2 of the MPEG4 Standard, page 201).
Should Intra DC quantisation for Simple Profile follow Section 3.4.4.2 or
Section 3.4.5.1.1?

Thank you,
Yossi Shain
NeoMagic Israel

_______________________________________________
Technotes mailing list
Technotes@lists.m4if.org
http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes


From peterh@videospheres.com  Tue Jun  5 11:32:52 2001
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From: "Peter Haighton" <peterh@videospheres.com>
To: <technotes@lists.m4if.org>
Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] mpeg-4 referece software
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:33:47 -0400
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Hello Rudinei,

Olivier Avaro forwarded your question to the implementation group
inside MPEG and here is the response that was received.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Olivier for your help.



Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-im1-sys@advent.ee.columbia.edu
[mailto:owner-im1-sys@advent.ee.columbia.edu]On Behalf Of Wo Chang
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 11:25 AM
To: Franceschini Guido; olivier.avaro@francetelecom.com; Ref. Sys Im1
(E-mail)
Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] mpeg-4 referece software


Dear Rudinei,

Guido is correct, you have to use VC6 in order to compile.
It is specially true for DMIFClientFilter since its .dsp
was generated by the earlier version of VCC (VC5).

Before compiling IM1Player via VC6, you need to disable
the DMIFClientFilter.dsp from READ-ONLY, so that VC6 can
generate DMIFClientFilter.dsp for VC6.

You also need to disable the READ-ONLY for the libs in
IM1Core\Lib since a new set of libs will be written into
this dir.

I think this will get you going with the compilation.

Have fun.

--Wo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Franceschini Guido" <Guido.Franceschini@tilab.com>
To: <olivier.avaro@francetelecom.com>; "Ref. Sys Im1 (E-mail)"
<im1-sys@advent.ee.columbia.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 3:20 AM
Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] mpeg-4 referece software


> The code released always compiled (with VC6), but I remember someone
having
> troubles using VC5.
> I suggest using VC6.
>
> Guido
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH [mailto:olivier.avaro@francetelecom.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 7:26 AM
> To: Ref. Sys Im1 (E-mail)
> Subject: TR: [M4IF Technotes] mpeg-4 referece software
>
>
>
> Can someone help ?
> cu,
> O.
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org
> [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]De la part de Rudinei Goularte
> Envoye : lundi 4 juin 2001 19:24
> A : technotes@lists.m4if.org
> Objet : [M4IF Technotes] mpeg-4 referece software
>
>
> Hi all!
>
> I've tried to compile the IM1Player (core)  released by ISO as the
> MPEG-4 reference software at:
>
http://isotc.iso.ch/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2489/Ittf_Home/PubliclyAvai
> lableStandards.htm/
>
> (look for 14496-5).
>
> I'm using Microsoft Visual C ++ v. 5.0 under Windows 98.
>
> The problem is that the compiler returns errors (see below). Fixing (I
> think) some parts of the code I found that some methods are not
> implemented. Is it true? I have to "fill in the blanks"? Or have ISO
> relesead a wrong version?
> Can someone help-me?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Rudinei.
>
> "
> DMIFClientFilter.cpp
> ..\..\Include\ztl.h(233) : error C2678: binary '==' : no operator
> defined which takes a left-hand operand of type 'struct McteSlot' (or
> there is no acceptable conversion)
> FlexDmux.cpp
> ..\..\Include\ztl.h(233) : error C2678: binary '==' : no operator
> defined which takes a left-hand operand of type 'struct McteSlot' (or
> there is no acceptable conversion)
> MyChannel.cpp
> ..\..\Include\ztl.h(233) : error C2678: binary '==' : no operator
> defined which takes a left-hand operand of type 'struct McteSlot' (or
> there is no acceptable conversion)
> Error executing cl.exe.
> "
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Technotes mailing list
> Technotes@lists.m4if.org
> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes



From pertti.lihavainen@hulikakku.suomi.net  Wed Jun  6 14:59:03 2001
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Subscribing

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pertti.lihavainen@hulikakku.suomi.net



From rkoenen@intertrust.com  Thu Jun  7 19:28:53 2001
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Cc: Jeyur.Patel@Mysoremail.ltitl.com,
   "Michael Wollborn (E-mail)"
	 <Michael.Wollborn@de.bosch.com>
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-----Original Message-----
From: Wollborn Michael (FV/SLM) * [mailto:Michael.Wollborn@de.bosch.com]
Sent: Thursday, 07 June, 2001 5:41
To: 
Cc: 'Rob Koenen'
Subject: 


Dear Jeyur,

> We would like to know the Visual Profile and Level 
> implementated in these
> Reference Software.
> 
> Does it support Visual Simple Profile @ Level 3 ?

the version 1 Reference Software should support all profiles defined in the
version 1 of the Standard. Hence, regarding your question, it should also
support the Visual Simple Profile. With respect to levels things get more
complex, since the reference software was not designed to test conformance.
And since it is a software solution, some parameters defined in the level
may not apply. Therefore, I think the correct answer with this respect is
that you can not really say it supports a certain level, since that also
depends on the hardware used etc.

Hope this helps. If you have any further related question don't hesitate to
ask.

Best Regards,

	Michael




_______________________________________________________________________

Dipl.-Ing. Dipl.-Wirt.-Ing. Michael Wollborn

Robert Bosch GmbH         Phone: +49 5121 49 5017
FV/SLM, PO Box 777777     Fax:   +49 5121 49 17 5017
31132 Hildesheim          Email: Michael.Wollborn@de.bosch.com
Germany                   http://www.tnt.uni-hannover.de/~wollborn
_______________________________________________________________________

"It follows that the Scientist, like the Pilgrim, must wend a straight 
 and narrow path between the Pitfalls of Oversimplification and the 
 Morass of Overcomplication" - Richard Bellman
_______________________________________________________________________

From rkoenen@intertrust.com  Fri Jun  8 02:47:32 2001
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From: Rob Koenen <rkoenen@intertrust.com>
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Subject: FW: [M4IF Technotes] mpeg-4 referece software
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 23:45:21 -0700 
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-im1-sys@advent.ee.columbia.edu
[mailto:owner-im1-sys@advent.ee.columbia.edu]On Behalf Of Wo Chang
Sent: Tuesday, 05 June, 2001 8:25
To: Franceschini Guido; olivier.avaro@francetelecom.com; Ref. Sys Im1
(E-mail)
Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] mpeg-4 referece software


Dear Rudinei,

Guido is correct, you have to use VC6 in order to compile.
It is specially true for DMIFClientFilter since its .dsp
was generated by the earlier version of VCC (VC5).

Before compiling IM1Player via VC6, you need to disable
the DMIFClientFilter.dsp from READ-ONLY, so that VC6 can
generate DMIFClientFilter.dsp for VC6.

You also need to disable the READ-ONLY for the libs in
IM1Core\Lib since a new set of libs will be written into
this dir.

I think this will get you going with the compilation.

Have fun.

--Wo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Franceschini Guido" <Guido.Franceschini@tilab.com>
To: <olivier.avaro@francetelecom.com>; "Ref. Sys Im1 (E-mail)"
<im1-sys@advent.ee.columbia.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 3:20 AM
Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] mpeg-4 referece software


> The code released always compiled (with VC6), but I remember someone
having
> troubles using VC5.
> I suggest using VC6.
>
> Guido
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AVARO Olivier FTRD/DIH [mailto:olivier.avaro@francetelecom.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 7:26 AM
> To: Ref. Sys Im1 (E-mail)
> Subject: TR: [M4IF Technotes] mpeg-4 referece software
>
>
>
> Can someone help ?
> cu,
> O.
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org
> [mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]De la part de Rudinei Goularte
> Envoye : lundi 4 juin 2001 19:24
> A : technotes@lists.m4if.org
> Objet : [M4IF Technotes] mpeg-4 referece software
>
>
> Hi all!
>
> I've tried to compile the IM1Player (core)  released by ISO as the
> MPEG-4 reference software at:
>
http://isotc.iso.ch/livelink/livelink/fetch/2000/2489/Ittf_Home/PubliclyAvai
> lableStandards.htm/
>
> (look for 14496-5).
>
> I'm using Microsoft Visual C ++ v. 5.0 under Windows 98.
>
> The problem is that the compiler returns errors (see below). Fixing (I
> think) some parts of the code I found that some methods are not
> implemented. Is it true? I have to "fill in the blanks"? Or have ISO
> relesead a wrong version?
> Can someone help-me?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Rudinei.
>
> "
> DMIFClientFilter.cpp
> ..\..\Include\ztl.h(233) : error C2678: binary '==' : no operator
> defined which takes a left-hand operand of type 'struct McteSlot' (or
> there is no acceptable conversion)
> FlexDmux.cpp
> ..\..\Include\ztl.h(233) : error C2678: binary '==' : no operator
> defined which takes a left-hand operand of type 'struct McteSlot' (or
> there is no acceptable conversion)
> MyChannel.cpp
> ..\..\Include\ztl.h(233) : error C2678: binary '==' : no operator
> defined which takes a left-hand operand of type 'struct McteSlot' (or
> there is no acceptable conversion)
> Error executing cl.exe.
> "
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Technotes mailing list
> Technotes@lists.m4if.org
> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes

From Jani.Huoponen@hantro.com  Mon Jun 11 00:21:05 2001
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Hi all,

There seems to be one vague point in the Visual standard regarding the AC
prediction, I would like to have your opinion on the interpretation of the
standard.

So the question is:
 
What values are supposed to use in ac prediction if type of the prediction
block (block 'A' or block 'C') is not intra? Standard does not seem to
impose any restrictions on usage of inter blocks as ac predictor blocks but
video verification model seems to specify that they should be handled the
same way as blocks outside the VOP or video packet (i.e. use zero values as
predictors instead of actual inter block ac coefficient values).

BR, Jani

------------------------------------------------------------
Jani Huoponen
Engineering Manager, System Design
Hantro Products Oy
Nahkatehtaankatu 2, 90100 Oulu, Finland
+358-40-5272676
------------------------------------------------------------


From ramki@emuzed.com  Mon Jun 11 08:21:50 2001
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From: "Ramkishor Korada" <ramki@emuzed.com>
To: "Jani Huoponen" <Jani.Huoponen@hantro.com>, <technotes@lists.m4if.org>
References: <FD3E5C77CBA4D411A2E500306E00513412CADD@HANTRODOM5>
Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Ac prediction
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 17:51:03 +0530
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Hi,
 When the block is not Intra (Inter), then they should be handled the same
way as blocks outside VOP or packet i.e., use zero values as predictors.

warm regards,
ramkishor

Architect - Video
Digital Media Technology Division
Emuzed Bangalore Division
IndiraNagar,Bangalore
www.emuzed.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jani Huoponen" <Jani.Huoponen@hantro.com>
To: <technotes@lists.m4if.org>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:48 AM
Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Ac prediction


> Hi all,
>
> There seems to be one vague point in the Visual standard regarding the AC
> prediction, I would like to have your opinion on the interpretation of the
> standard.
>
> So the question is:
>
> What values are supposed to use in ac prediction if type of the prediction
> block (block 'A' or block 'C') is not intra? Standard does not seem to
> impose any restrictions on usage of inter blocks as ac predictor blocks
but
> video verification model seems to specify that they should be handled the
> same way as blocks outside the VOP or video packet (i.e. use zero values
as
> predictors instead of actual inter block ac coefficient values).
>
> BR, Jani
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Jani Huoponen
> Engineering Manager, System Design
> Hantro Products Oy
> Nahkatehtaankatu 2, 90100 Oulu, Finland
> +358-40-5272676
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Technotes mailing list
> Technotes@lists.m4if.org
> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes
>


From HerpelC@thmulti.com  Mon Jun 11 10:32:35 2001
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From: Herpel Carsten <HerpelC@thmulti.com>
To: technotes@lists.m4if.org
Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Ac prediction
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:01:17 +0200
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The issue is: If this cannot be read unambiguously from the spec, a
Corrigendum should be made to remove this ambiguity.

Is it ambiguous from the written spec?

Regards,
Carsten
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| THOMSON multimedia -------------------------- CR Hannover |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+
| Carsten Herpel                                            |
| Deutsche Thomson-Brandt GmbH                              |
| Karl-Wiechert-Allee 74           Tel.: +49 511 418 2510   |
| 30625 Hannover                   Fax.: +49 511 418 2483   |
| Germany                        mailto:herpelc@thmulti.com |
+-----------------------------------------------------------+

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ramkishor Korada [mailto:ramki@emuzed.com]
Sent: 11 June, 2001 14:21
To: Jani Huoponen; technotes@lists.m4if.org
Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Ac prediction


Hi,
 When the block is not Intra (Inter), then they should be handled the same
way as blocks outside VOP or packet i.e., use zero values as predictors.

warm regards,
ramkishor

Architect - Video
Digital Media Technology Division
Emuzed Bangalore Division
IndiraNagar,Bangalore
www.emuzed.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jani Huoponen" <Jani.Huoponen@hantro.com>
To: <technotes@lists.m4if.org>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:48 AM
Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Ac prediction


> Hi all,
>
> There seems to be one vague point in the Visual standard regarding the AC
> prediction, I would like to have your opinion on the interpretation of the
> standard.
>
> So the question is:
>
> What values are supposed to use in ac prediction if type of the prediction
> block (block 'A' or block 'C') is not intra? Standard does not seem to
> impose any restrictions on usage of inter blocks as ac predictor blocks
but
> video verification model seems to specify that they should be handled the
> same way as blocks outside the VOP or video packet (i.e. use zero values
as
> predictors instead of actual inter block ac coefficient values).
>
> BR, Jani
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Jani Huoponen
> Engineering Manager, System Design
> Hantro Products Oy
> Nahkatehtaankatu 2, 90100 Oulu, Finland
> +358-40-5272676
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Technotes mailing list
> Technotes@lists.m4if.org
> http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes
>

_______________________________________________
Technotes mailing list
Technotes@lists.m4if.org
http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes

From pertti.lihavainen@hulikakku.suomi.net  Wed Jun 20 07:38:46 2001
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From bj@sasken.com  Fri Jun 22 09:30:24 2001
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From: B Jagadeesh <bj@sasken.com>
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Subject: [M4IF Technotes] GOV header for enhancement layer
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Dear All,

Group of VOP (GOV) header is optional as per the MPEG-4 visual standard.

In the case of temporal scalability, if an encoder decides to have a GOV
header in the base layer, should the GOV header be present in the
corresponding enhancement layer bit stream also?

Can GOV header be present in the enhancement layer bit stream? Is it
allowed as per MPEG-4 Visual standard?

If base layer has GOV header and enhancement layer does not, then
calculation of the Composition Time Stamp (CTS) for an enhancement
layer VOP will depend on CTS of the Base layer VOPs.

I request experts to comment on this.

regards,
B. Jagadeesh, Ph.D.,
Sasken Communication technologies Limited,
Bangalore, Inida.







From Jani.Huoponen@hantro.com  Tue Jun 26 01:25:11 2001
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From: Jani Huoponen <Jani.Huoponen@hantro.com>
To: Herpel Carsten <HerpelC@thmulti.com>, technotes@lists.m4if.org
Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Ac prediction
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:22:20 +0300
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Hi,

Actually, this issue is not ambigous in the Visual standard, it does not say
that you should treat inter blocks any differently from intra blocks.
However, the video verification model document describes it other way, i.e.,
inter blocks should be treated as blocks outside of VOP or video packet (as
Ramkishor says below). This interpretation seems to be quite common and if
this is the way to do it then there should be a Corrigendum for it.
Otherwise the Video Verification Model doc should be corrected to match the
actual Visual standard. 

Which way to go?

br, Jani

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Herpel Carsten [mailto:HerpelC@thmulti.com]
> Sent: 11. kesäkuuta 2001 17:01
> To: technotes@lists.m4if.org
> Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] Ac prediction
> 
> 
> The issue is: If this cannot be read unambiguously from the spec, a
> Corrigendum should be made to remove this ambiguity.
> 
> Is it ambiguous from the written spec?
> 
> Regards,
> Carsten
> +-----------------------------------------------------------+
> | THOMSON multimedia -------------------------- CR Hannover |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------+
> | Carsten Herpel                                            |
> | Deutsche Thomson-Brandt GmbH                              |
> | Karl-Wiechert-Allee 74           Tel.: +49 511 418 2510   |
> | 30625 Hannover                   Fax.: +49 511 418 2483   |
> | Germany                        mailto:herpelc@thmulti.com |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------+
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ramkishor Korada [mailto:ramki@emuzed.com]
> Sent: 11 June, 2001 14:21
> To: Jani Huoponen; technotes@lists.m4if.org
> Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] Ac prediction
> 
> 
> Hi,
>  When the block is not Intra (Inter), then they should be 
> handled the same
> way as blocks outside VOP or packet i.e., use zero values as 
> predictors.
> 
> warm regards,
> ramkishor
> 
> Architect - Video
> Digital Media Technology Division
> Emuzed Bangalore Division
> IndiraNagar,Bangalore
> www.emuzed.com
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jani Huoponen" <Jani.Huoponen@hantro.com>
> To: <technotes@lists.m4if.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 9:48 AM
> Subject: [M4IF Technotes] Ac prediction
> 
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > There seems to be one vague point in the Visual standard 
> regarding the AC
> > prediction, I would like to have your opinion on the 
> interpretation of the
> > standard.
> >
> > So the question is:
> >
> > What values are supposed to use in ac prediction if type of 
> the prediction
> > block (block 'A' or block 'C') is not intra? Standard does 
> not seem to
> > impose any restrictions on usage of inter blocks as ac 
> predictor blocks
> but
> > video verification model seems to specify that they should 
> be handled the
> > same way as blocks outside the VOP or video packet (i.e. 
> use zero values
> as
> > predictors instead of actual inter block ac coefficient values).
> >
> > BR, Jani
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Jani Huoponen
> > Engineering Manager, System Design
> > Hantro Products Oy
> > Nahkatehtaankatu 2, 90100 Oulu, Finland
> > +358-40-5272676
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Technotes mailing list
> > Technotes@lists.m4if.org
> > http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Technotes mailing list
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> _______________________________________________
> Technotes mailing list
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> 

From axel.binder@philips.com  Mon Jul  9 04:00:21 2001
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Hi,

I found several places where alpha values are calculated
for gray level shapes and during BIFS lighting. However,
I couldn't find any place where these values (from the frame
buffer, composed scene) are used again. Did I miss something
or are the calculations of the destination alpha values
obsolete?

Thanks in advance

Axel


=====================================================
Axel Binder                     Philips Starnberg
Development Manager Software    Petersbrunner Str. 17
                                D-82319 Starnberg
phone:  +49 8151 270 108        Germany
fax:    +49 8151 270 200
mobile: +49 172 92 18 623
e-mail: axel.binder@philips.com
=====================================================



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Subject: [M4IF Technotes] [M4IF Infolist] MPEG-4 Question about alpha values
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Hi,

I found several places where alpha values are calculated
for gray level shapes and during BIFS lighting. However,
I couldn't find any place where these values (from the frame
buffer, composed scene) are used again. Did I miss something
or are the calculations of the destination alpha values
obsolete?

Thanks in advance

Axel


=====================================================
Axel Binder                     Philips Starnberg
Development Manager Software    Petersbrunner Str. 17
                                D-82319 Starnberg
phone:  +49 8151 270 108        Germany
fax:    +49 8151 270 200
mobile: +49 172 92 18 623
e-mail: axel.binder@philips.com
=====================================================


_______________________________________________
M4IF General Information list
Infolist@lists.m4if.org
http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/infolist


From renaud@envivio.com  Mon Jul  9 04:34:59 2001
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Subject: Re: [M4IF Technotes] MPEG-4 Question about alpha values
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Hi,
You probably should have a look to the VRML documentation
(a good start is http://www.best.com/~rikk/Book/)

Renaud

Envivio


axel.binder@philips.com wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I found several places where alpha values are calculated
> for gray level shapes and during BIFS lighting. However,
> I couldn't find any place where these values (from the frame
> buffer, composed scene) are used again. Did I miss something
> or are the calculations of the destination alpha values
> obsolete?


From axel.binder@philips.com  Tue Jul 10 11:24:07 2001
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Hi,

can anybody tell me for which visual profiles the
"overlapped motion compensation"-tool (OBMC) is employed?

Due to the profile overview in the standard it's never
used. In some requirement document I found it was proposed for
Main profile.

thanks beforehand

axel

=====================================================
Axel Binder                     Philips Starnberg
Development Manager Software    Petersbrunner Str. 17
                                D-82319 Starnberg
phone:  +49 8151 270 108        Germany
fax:    +49 8151 270 200
mobile: +49 172 92 18 623
e-mail: axel.binder@philips.com
=====================================================



From fp@lx.it.pt  Tue Jul 10 12:03:20 2001
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 Hi !

axel.binder@philips.com wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> can anybody tell me for which visual profiles the
> "overlapped motion compensation"-tool (OBMC) is employed?
> 
> Due to the profile overview in the standard it's never
> used. In some requirement document I found it was proposed for
> Main profile.

 Until now, the OBMC has not been include in any visual object type and
consequently in no visual profile.

 Regards
		Fernando
-- 
Fernando Manuel Bernardo Pereira, Ph.D., Professor
Instituto Superior Técnico - Instituto de Telecomunicações
Av. Rovisco Pais, 1049-001 Lisboa, PORTUGAL
Phone:  + 351 21 8418460           Fax:    + 351 21 8418472
E-mail: Fernando.Pereira@lx.it.pt WWW: http://www.img.lx.it.pt/~fp/

From hagai@enquad.com  Tue Jul 10 12:36:48 2001
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Subject: [M4IF Technotes] GMC supported at core-profile ?
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Hi,

can anybody tell me if core-profile support Global Motion Compensation =
(GMC) tool ?

I know that Advanced Simple Profile support this tool.

thanks,
    hagai


------=_NextPart_000_0370_01C10977.401C28B0
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi,<BR><BR>can anybody tell me if =
core-profile=20
support Global Motion Compensation (GMC) tool ?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I know that Advanced Simple Profile =
support this=20
tool.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>thanks,<BR><FONT =
face=3DArial>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
hagai</FONT><BR></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From rkoenen@intertrust.com  Tue Jul 10 12:42:03 2001
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From: Rob Koenen <rkoenen@intertrust.com>
To: "'Hagai Folkman'" <hagai@enquad.com>,
   tech notes M4IF
	 <technotes@lists.m4if.org>
Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] GMC supported at core-profile ?
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It is not in Core.
It is in Advnaced Simple and Advanced Coding Efficiency (ACE)
 
Rob

-----Original Message-----
From: Hagai Folkman [mailto:hagai@enquad.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July, 2001 10:34
To: tech notes M4IF
Subject: [M4IF Technotes] GMC supported at core-profile ?


Hi,

can anybody tell me if core-profile support Global Motion Compensation (GMC)
tool ?
 
I know that Advanced Simple Profile support this tool.
 
thanks,
    hagai



------_=_NextPart_001_01C1095E.C92AB680
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<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=144513916-10072001><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>It is not in 
Core.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=144513916-10072001><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>It is in Advnaced 
Simple and Advanced Coding Efficiency (ACE)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=144513916-10072001><FONT color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=144513916-10072001><FONT color=#0000ff 
size=2>Rob</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Hagai Folkman 
  [mailto:hagai@enquad.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, 10 July, 2001 
  10:34<BR><B>To:</B> tech notes M4IF<BR><B>Subject:</B> [M4IF Technotes] GMC 
  supported at core-profile ?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi,<BR><BR>can anybody tell me if core-profile 
  support Global Motion Compensation (GMC) tool ?</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I know that Advanced Simple Profile support this 
  tool.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>thanks,<BR><FONT face=Arial>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 
  hagai</FONT><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From garysull@microsoft.com  Tue Jul 10 14:47:38 2001
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Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] OBMC, for which visual profile
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Axel,

You're right.  None of the MPEG-4 profiles use OBMC.
That's unfortunate, because it's a good tool (although
my opinion is biased).

It's odd that some publications talk about OBMC as
being a feature of MPEG-4.  As things stand, it really
isn't used in that standard.

Best Regards,

-Gary S.

-----Original Message-----
From: axel.binder@philips.com [mailto:axel.binder@philips.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 8:24 AM
To: technotes@lists.m4if.org
Subject: [M4IF Technotes] OBMC, for which visual profile


Hi,

can anybody tell me for which visual profiles the
"overlapped motion compensation"-tool (OBMC) is employed?

Due to the profile overview in the standard it's never
used. In some requirement document I found it was proposed for
Main profile.

thanks beforehand

axel

=====================================================
Axel Binder                     Philips Starnberg
Development Manager Software    Petersbrunner Str. 17
                                D-82319 Starnberg
phone:  +49 8151 270 108        Germany
fax:    +49 8151 270 200
mobile: +49 172 92 18 623
e-mail: axel.binder@philips.com
=====================================================


_______________________________________________
Technotes mailing list
Technotes@lists.m4if.org
http://lists.m4if.org/mailman/listinfo/technotes

From peterh@videospheres.com  Tue Jul 10 15:03:10 2001
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From: "Peter Haighton" <peterh@videospheres.com>
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Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] OBMC, for which visual profile
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Hi All,

Yes, OBMC is a strange thing.  Since it is described quite well in the
standard, it is kind of odd that it never got put into any profile. Its a
tool with no home! Which leads to the question, should it be removed from
the specification?

Peter
--
Peter Haighton
VideoSpheres Inc.
329 March Road, Unit 109
Kanata, Ontario
Canada, K2K 2E9
Tel: (613) 270-9646 x240
Fax: (613) 271-1896
email: peterh@VideoSpheres.com

See http://www.m4if.org for the latest on MPEG-4


-----Original Message-----
From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org
[mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Gary Sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:30 PM
To: axel.binder@philips.com; technotes@lists.m4if.org
Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] OBMC, for which visual profile



Axel,

You're right.  None of the MPEG-4 profiles use OBMC.
That's unfortunate, because it's a good tool (although
my opinion is biased).

It's odd that some publications talk about OBMC as
being a feature of MPEG-4.  As things stand, it really
isn't used in that standard.

Best Regards,

-Gary S.

-----Original Message-----
From: axel.binder@philips.com [mailto:axel.binder@philips.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 8:24 AM
To: technotes@lists.m4if.org
Subject: [M4IF Technotes] OBMC, for which visual profile


Hi,

can anybody tell me for which visual profiles the
"overlapped motion compensation"-tool (OBMC) is employed?

Due to the profile overview in the standard it's never
used. In some requirement document I found it was proposed for
Main profile.

thanks beforehand

axel

=====================================================
Axel Binder                     Philips Starnberg
Development Manager Software    Petersbrunner Str. 17
                                D-82319 Starnberg
phone:  +49 8151 270 108        Germany
fax:    +49 8151 270 200
mobile: +49 172 92 18 623
e-mail: axel.binder@philips.com
=====================================================


_______________________________________________
Technotes mailing list
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From: Rob Koenen <rkoenen@intertrust.com>
To: "'Peter Haighton'" <peterh@videospheres.com>,
   Gary Sullivan
	 <garysull@microsoft.com>, axel.binder@philips.com,
   technotes@lists.m4if.org
Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] OBMC, for which visual profile
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:18:04 -0700
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> Yes, OBMC is a strange thing.  Since it is described quite well in the
> standard, it is kind of odd that it never got put into any 
> profile. Its a
> tool with no home! Which leads to the question, should it be 
> removed from
> the specification?

M4If is kind of a funny place to discuss this, but the answer is,
it *could* theoretically be removed, but IF AND ONLY IF you are 
sure it will never be used in any future profile.

I see no harm in letting it sit there.

Rob

From garysull@microsoft.com  Tue Jul 10 15:46:44 2001
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Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] OBMC, for which visual profile
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Thread-Topic: [M4IF Technotes] OBMC, for which visual profile
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From: "Gary Sullivan" <garysull@microsoft.com>
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Personally, I don't think we should try to remove OBMC from MPEG-4.
It takes a lot of work to remove things, and it's possible
to introduce errors in the process.  And the position of OBMC
in the spec isn't really a problem -- it's just an oddity.
It's just an opportunity that was passed by -- a useful tool
that hasn't yet been used (at least not in MPEG-4).  I believe
there have been other examples of such things, although I can't
think of others in MPEG standards at the moment.

There's always the chance it could get picked up in some
yet-to-be-defined future profile.

Best Regards,

-Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Haighton [mailto:peterh@videospheres.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 12:04 PM
To: Gary Sullivan; axel.binder@philips.com; technotes@lists.m4if.org
Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] OBMC, for which visual profile


Hi All,

Yes, OBMC is a strange thing.  Since it is described quite well in the
standard, it is kind of odd that it never got put into any profile. Its
a
tool with no home! Which leads to the question, should it be removed
from
the specification?

Peter
--
Peter Haighton
VideoSpheres Inc.
329 March Road, Unit 109
Kanata, Ontario
Canada, K2K 2E9
Tel: (613) 270-9646 x240
Fax: (613) 271-1896
email: peterh@VideoSpheres.com

See http://www.m4if.org for the latest on MPEG-4


-----Original Message-----
From: technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org
[mailto:technotes-admin@lists.m4if.org]On Behalf Of Gary Sullivan
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 2:30 PM
To: axel.binder@philips.com; technotes@lists.m4if.org
Subject: RE: [M4IF Technotes] OBMC, for which visual profile



Axel,

You're right.  None of the MPEG-4 profiles use OBMC.
That's unfortunate, because it's a good tool (although
my opinion is biased).

It's odd that some publications talk about OBMC as
being a feature of MPEG-4.  As things stand, it really
isn't used in that standard.

Best Regards,

-Gary S.

-----Original Message-----
From: axel.binder@philips.com [mailto:axel.binder@philips.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 8:24 AM
To: technotes@lists.m4if.org
Subject: [M4IF Technotes] OBMC, for which visual profile


Hi,

can anybody tell me for which visual profiles the
"overlapped motion compensation"-tool (OBMC) is employed?

Due to the profile overview in the standard it's never
used. In some requirement document I found it was proposed for
Main profile.

thanks beforehand

axel

=====================================================
Axel Binder                     Philips Starnberg
Development Manager Software    Petersbrunner Str. 17
                                D-82319 Starnberg
phone:  +49 8151 270 108        Germany
fax:    +49 8151 270 200
mobile: +49 172 92 18 623
e-mail: axel.binder@philips.com
=====================================================


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From peterh@videospheres.com  Tue Jul 10 15:50:05 2001
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