From stdavidchen at hotmail.com Wed Dec 3 09:10:58 2008 From: stdavidchen at hotmail.com (David.Chen) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:10:58 +0100 Subject: [Mp4-tech] 1,problem with the usage of FMO open; 2,picture or frame based Inter prediction? Message-ID: Hello everyone! I have two questions: 1) I was doing some experiments about the H.264's FMO feature. And it seemed the JM encoder part works fine, I was using extended profile and FMO mode 2(Foreground with left-over). But when I was going to the decoder part, Some problem happened. The JM decoder outputed that: warning: zero_byte shall exist mb_qp_delta is out of range And only the first frame was decoded. I tried several different video sequence. Only the one which I had set the foreground top-left MB starts with 0 can be successfully decoded, the others all failed. But if I use the Elecard tools( a H.264 analysis tools) to open the encoded .264 file, it works fine, so maybe that means there are some problems or bugs in the JM decoder? ps: The encoding configure file is in the accessory. 2) Another question is about the Inter prediction of H.264. According to the configure of JM encoder, e.g. interlaced is setting, one frame may be divided into two pictures or something when encoding. And I found out that Inter prediction(B,P frames) in JM is basing on "Picture" Unit and not "Frame" Unit. That means if that one frame is divided into two pictures, each picture can possibly predicted from each other. Am I right? Thank you! Chen Wei Research engineer Poytech'Nantes,IRCCyN IVC Team, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081203/d02bb89b/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: encoder_FMO_2.cfg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 39420 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081203/d02bb89b/attachment.obj -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: sg2conf.cfg Type: application/octet-stream Size: 121 bytes Desc: not available Url : /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081203/d02bb89b/attachment-0001.obj From garysull at windows.microsoft.com Wed Dec 3 19:08:44 2008 From: garysull at windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 16:08:44 -0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] 1,problem with the usage of FMO open; 2,picture or frame based Inter prediction? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31C15DDA2F7@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> David Chen et al, To respond to the 2nd question first, yes - if a frame is coded as two pictures (as a complementary reference field pair), the second picture can use the first picture as a reference for inter-picture prediction. That can be a good trick for encoding scene changes or intra refreshes. Topic 1 seems like a significant bug report (assuming the config file is OK and that you're using the latest version of the JM code). If you figure out what code fix is needed to fix it, please let us know. One good rule of thumb is to make sure you're using the most recent version of the JM. I notice that you did not identify a version number. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of David.Chen Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:11 AM To: mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] 1,problem with the usage of FMO open; 2,picture or frame based Inter prediction? Hello everyone! I have two questions: 1) I was doing some experiments about the H.264's FMO feature. And it seemed the JM encoder part works fine, I was using extended profile and FMO mode 2(Foreground with left-over). But when I was going to the decoder part, Some problem happened. The JM decoder outputed that: warning: zero_byte shall exist mb_qp_delta is out of range And only the first frame was decoded. I tried several different video sequence. Only the one which I had set the foreground top-left MB starts with 0 can be successfully decoded, the others all failed. But if I use the Elecard tools( a H.264 analysis tools) to open the encoded .264 file, it works fine, so maybe that means there are some problems or bugs in the JM decoder? ps: The encoding configure file is in the accessory. 2) Another question is about the Inter prediction of H.264. According to the configure of JM encoder, e.g. interlaced is setting, one frame may be divided into two pictures or something when encoding. And I found out that Inter prediction(B,P frames) in JM is basing on "Picture" Unit and not "Frame" Unit. That means if that one frame is divided into two pictures, each picture can possibly predicted from each other. Am I right? Thank you! Chen Wei Research engineer Poytech'Nantes,IRCCyN IVC Team, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081203/225396f7/attachment.html From alexis.tourapis at dolby.com Wed Dec 3 19:23:35 2008 From: alexis.tourapis at dolby.com (Tourapis, Alexis) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 16:23:35 -0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] 1,problem with the usage of FMO open; 2,picture or frame based Inter prediction? In-Reply-To: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31C15DDA2F7@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31C15DDA2F7@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <2BAAC5E4AF2518459F0AB5D92794204701C1AF1C@bur-exch-01.dolby.net> Dear David, I don't know which version of the encoder you are using, but in the past the software had an issue with multiple slices and the use of rate control. The software did not properly set the quantization parameters at slice boundaries resulting in invalid bitstreams. This has been fixed but I don't recall if we have fixed it in the previous version or the version about to be released soon. The zero byte warning is not a big issue and is only a warning. In any case, if you are using version 14.2 and you are getting this error from that software, you need to wait for the upcoming release and you should be able to use rate control without a problem. Best regards, Alexis ________________________________ From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull at windows.microsoft.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:09 PM To: David.Chen; mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Cc: 'Karsten Suehring'; Tourapis, Alexis Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] 1,problem with the usage of FMO open; 2,picture or frame based Inter prediction? David Chen et al, To respond to the 2nd question first, yes - if a frame is coded as two pictures (as a complementary reference field pair), the second picture can use the first picture as a reference for inter-picture prediction. That can be a good trick for encoding scene changes or intra refreshes. Topic 1 seems like a significant bug report (assuming the config file is OK and that you're using the latest version of the JM code). If you figure out what code fix is needed to fix it, please let us know. One good rule of thumb is to make sure you're using the most recent version of the JM. I notice that you did not identify a version number. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of David.Chen Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:11 AM To: mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] 1,problem with the usage of FMO open; 2,picture or frame based Inter prediction? Hello everyone! I have two questions: 1) I was doing some experiments about the H.264's FMO feature. And it seemed the JM encoder part works fine, I was using extended profile and FMO mode 2(Foreground with left-over). But when I was going to the decoder part, Some problem happened. The JM decoder outputed that: warning: zero_byte shall exist mb_qp_delta is out of range And only the first frame was decoded. I tried several different video sequence. Only the one which I had set the foreground top-left MB starts with 0 can be successfully decoded, the others all failed. But if I use the Elecard tools( a H.264 analysis tools) to open the encoded .264 file, it works fine, so maybe that means there are some problems or bugs in the JM decoder? ps: The encoding configure file is in the accessory. 2) Another question is about the Inter prediction of H.264. According to the configure of JM encoder, e.g. interlaced is setting, one frame may be divided into two pictures or something when encoding. And I found out that Inter prediction(B,P frames) in JM is basing on "Picture" Unit and not "Frame" Unit. That means if that one frame is divided into two pictures, each picture can possibly predicted from each other. Am I right? Thank you! Chen Wei Research engineer Poytech'Nantes,IRCCyN IVC Team, ----------------------------------------- This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, delete this message. If you are not the intended recipient, disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action based on this message is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081203/f3f13b31/attachment.html From stdavidchen at hotmail.com Thu Dec 4 09:21:59 2008 From: stdavidchen at hotmail.com (David.Chen) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 15:21:59 +0100 Subject: [Mp4-tech] 1,problem with the usage of FMO open; 2,picture or frame based Inter prediction? In-Reply-To: <2BAAC5E4AF2518459F0AB5D92794204701C1AF1C@bur-exch-01.dolby.net> References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31C15DDA2F7@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> <2BAAC5E4AF2518459F0AB5D92794204701C1AF1C@bur-exch-01.dolby.net> Message-ID: Dear Alexis and Gary: Thank you firstly for quick response. Sorry for forgetting to mention the JM version what I am using, It it the most recent one 14.2. According to your answer, I will try to see the code and make sure whether it is a bug or not. And if so , I will hand up in the bug report system. yours David From: Tourapis, Alexis Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:23 AM To: Gary Sullivan ; David.Chen ; mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Cc: Karsten Suehring Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] 1,problem with the usage of FMO open; 2,picture or frame based Inter prediction? Dear David, I don't know which version of the encoder you are using, but in the past the software had an issue with multiple slices and the use of rate control. The software did not properly set the quantization parameters at slice boundaries resulting in invalid bitstreams. This has been fixed but I don't recall if we have fixed it in the previous version or the version about to be released soon. The zero byte warning is not a big issue and is only a warning. In any case, if you are using version 14.2 and you are getting this error from that software, you need to wait for the upcoming release and you should be able to use rate control without a problem. Best regards, Alexis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull at windows.microsoft.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:09 PM To: David.Chen; mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Cc: 'Karsten Suehring'; Tourapis, Alexis Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] 1,problem with the usage of FMO open; 2,picture or frame based Inter prediction? David Chen et al, To respond to the 2nd question first, yes - if a frame is coded as two pictures (as a complementary reference field pair), the second picture can use the first picture as a reference for inter-picture prediction. That can be a good trick for encoding scene changes or intra refreshes. Topic 1 seems like a significant bug report (assuming the config file is OK and that you're using the latest version of the JM code). If you figure out what code fix is needed to fix it, please let us know. One good rule of thumb is to make sure you're using the most recent version of the JM. I notice that you did not identify a version number. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of David.Chen Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:11 AM To: mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] 1,problem with the usage of FMO open; 2,picture or frame based Inter prediction? Hello everyone! I have two questions: 1) I was doing some experiments about the H.264's FMO feature. And it seemed the JM encoder part works fine, I was using extended profile and FMO mode 2(Foreground with left-over). But when I was going to the decoder part, Some problem happened. The JM decoder outputed that: warning: zero_byte shall exist mb_qp_delta is out of range And only the first frame was decoded. I tried several different video sequence. Only the one which I had set the foreground top-left MB starts with 0 can be successfully decoded, the others all failed. But if I use the Elecard tools( a H.264 analysis tools) to open the encoded .264 file, it works fine, so maybe that means there are some problems or bugs in the JM decoder? ps: The encoding configure file is in the accessory. 2) Another question is about the Inter prediction of H.264. According to the configure of JM encoder, e.g. interlaced is setting, one frame may be divided into two pictures or something when encoding. And I found out that Inter prediction(B,P frames) in JM is basing on "Picture" Unit and not "Frame" Unit. That means if that one frame is divided into two pictures, each picture can possibly predicted from each other. Am I right? Thank you! Chen Wei Research engineer Poytech'Nantes,IRCCyN IVC Team, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, delete this message. If you are not the intended recipient, disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action based on this message is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081204/0b1257cc/attachment.html From alexis.tourapis at dolby.com Thu Dec 4 18:47:39 2008 From: alexis.tourapis at dolby.com (Tourapis, Alexis) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 15:47:39 -0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] 1,problem with the usage of FMO open; 2,picture or frame based Inter prediction? In-Reply-To: References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31C15DDA2F7@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com><2BAAC5E4AF2518459F0AB5D92794204701C1AF1C@bur-exch-01.dolby.net> Message-ID: <2BAAC5E4AF2518459F0AB5D92794204701C1B0B9@bur-exch-01.dolby.net> If you are using 14.2 then the bug was corrected in the upcoming version. You should wait for that to be released. Thank you and best regards, Alexis ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of David.Chen Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:22 AM To: Tourapis, Alexis; Gary sullivan; mp4-list Subject: Re: [Mp4-tech] 1,problem with the usage of FMO open;2,picture or frame based Inter prediction? Dear Alexis and Gary: Thank you firstly for quick response. Sorry for forgetting to mention the JM version what I am using, It it the most recent one 14.2. According to your answer, I will try to see the code and make sure whether it is a bug or not. And if so , I will hand up in the bug report system. yours David From: Tourapis, Alexis Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:23 AM To: Gary Sullivan ; David.Chen ; mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Cc: Karsten Suehring Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] 1,problem with the usage of FMO open; 2,picture or frame based Inter prediction? Dear David, I don't know which version of the encoder you are using, but in the past the software had an issue with multiple slices and the use of rate control. The software did not properly set the quantization parameters at slice boundaries resulting in invalid bitstreams. This has been fixed but I don't recall if we have fixed it in the previous version or the version about to be released soon. The zero byte warning is not a big issue and is only a warning. In any case, if you are using version 14.2 and you are getting this error from that software, you need to wait for the upcoming release and you should be able to use rate control without a problem. Best regards, Alexis ________________________________ From: Gary Sullivan [mailto:garysull at windows.microsoft.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 4:09 PM To: David.Chen; mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Cc: 'Karsten Suehring'; Tourapis, Alexis Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] 1,problem with the usage of FMO open; 2,picture or frame based Inter prediction? David Chen et al, To respond to the 2nd question first, yes - if a frame is coded as two pictures (as a complementary reference field pair), the second picture can use the first picture as a reference for inter-picture prediction. That can be a good trick for encoding scene changes or intra refreshes. Topic 1 seems like a significant bug report (assuming the config file is OK and that you're using the latest version of the JM code). If you figure out what code fix is needed to fix it, please let us know. One good rule of thumb is to make sure you're using the most recent version of the JM. I notice that you did not identify a version number. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of David.Chen Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:11 AM To: mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] 1,problem with the usage of FMO open; 2,picture or frame based Inter prediction? Hello everyone! I have two questions: 1) I was doing some experiments about the H.264's FMO feature. And it seemed the JM encoder part works fine, I was using extended profile and FMO mode 2(Foreground with left-over). But when I was going to the decoder part, Some problem happened. The JM decoder outputed that: warning: zero_byte shall exist mb_qp_delta is out of range And only the first frame was decoded. I tried several different video sequence. Only the one which I had set the foreground top-left MB starts with 0 can be successfully decoded, the others all failed. But if I use the Elecard tools( a H.264 analysis tools) to open the encoded .264 file, it works fine, so maybe that means there are some problems or bugs in the JM decoder? ps: The encoding configure file is in the accessory. 2) Another question is about the Inter prediction of H.264. According to the configure of JM encoder, e.g. interlaced is setting, one frame may be divided into two pictures or something when encoding. And I found out that Inter prediction(B,P frames) in JM is basing on "Picture" Unit and not "Frame" Unit. That means if that one frame is divided into two pictures, each picture can possibly predicted from each other. Am I right? Thank you! Chen Wei Research engineer Poytech'Nantes,IRCCyN IVC Team, ________________________________ This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, delete this message. If you are not the intended recipient, disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action based on this message is strictly prohibited. ----------------------------------------- This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, delete this message. If you are not the intended recipient, disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action based on this message is strictly prohibited. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081204/dae8d7f6/attachment.html From toru.yokoyama.bz at hitachi.com Fri Dec 5 03:24:47 2008 From: toru.yokoyama.bz at hitachi.com (Toru Yokoyama) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:24:47 +0900 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Problem with decoding MPEG-4 SP@L6 conformance stream Message-ID: <20081205171240.D0D6.TORU.YOKOYAMA.BZ@hitachi.com> Dear experts, I have a problem with decoding MPEG-4 SP at L6 conformance stream "nok_720p.cmp" (14496-4/AMD28). The latest reference decoder (14496-5:2001/Amd.3:2003) fails to decode it. Some other commercial MPEG-4 decoders also fail. So currently, I can't find any decoders that can correctly decode the level 6 conformance stream. Does anybody know, - Whether 'nok_720p.cmp' is really conformant to MPEG-4 SP at L6 or not? - Are there any other public level 6 conformance streams? - Are there any other decoders that can decode the level 6 conformance stream? Any comment would be helpful. Best regards, Toru Yokoyama Hitachi, Ltd. From zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 06:20:24 2008 From: zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com (Andy Quan) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 19:20:24 +0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [AAC]max bits per frame Message-ID: Hi, According to ISO/IEC 14496-3:2001, 4.5.3.1, every SCE and CPE has a maximum bit length of 6144 and 12288 respectively. Then does anyone know what if it is an AAC+v1 or AAC+v2 bitstream? What are the contraints here for SCE, CPE, SBR & PS payload? Basically, I need this to understand the maximum input buffer needed for any kind of AAC/AAC+/AAC+v2 input. Thanks in advance. -- Regards, Andy Quan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081207/fabfb520/attachment.html From zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 07:10:28 2008 From: zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com (Andy Quan) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 20:10:28 +0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [audio][AAC]max bits per frame In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Hi, > According to ISO/IEC 14496-3:2001, 4.5.3.1, every SCE and CPE has a > maximum bit length of 6144 and 12288 respectively. Then does anyone know > what if it is an AAC+v1 or AAC+v2 bitstream? What are the contraints here > for SCE, CPE, SBR & PS payload? > Basically, I need this to understand the maximum input buffer needed for > any kind of AAC/AAC+/AAC+v2 input. Thanks in advance. > -- > Regards, > Andy Quan > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081207/83da0439/attachment.html From Ashwani_Gupta at mindtree.com Mon Dec 8 03:12:44 2008 From: Ashwani_Gupta at mindtree.com (Ashwani Gupta) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 13:42:44 +0530 Subject: [Mp4-tech] querry related to B Frame decoding in h264 Message-ID: Dear Experts, I have a doubt related to the B Frame decoding in H.264. I want to know what actually the difference between BSkip and BDirect macroblocks is. How the decoding will differ in both the cases? Because according to my knowledge a macroblock of BSkip type is always processed as of 8x8 type independent of whether the partition is 16x16 or 16x8 or 8x16 in the standard. I have seen no difference in decoding for the macroblocks of such type. But on seeing from Elecard, I got a term called pmode which will differentiate whether the B Skip MB is of type 16x16 or other type. Because what I found out is that for a MB of type BSKIP and if the partition is 16x16, the value of pmode comes out to be 0 where as if 16x8 or 8x8 partition is used for BSkip, pmode contains a non-zero value. Is there any term in the standard which will directly relate to pmode in the Elecard? Thanks in advance Regards Ashwani ________________________________ This message (including attachment if any) is confidential and may be privileged. If you have received this message by mistake please notify the sender by return e-mail and delete this message from your system. Any unauthorized use or dissemination of this message in whole or in part is strictly prohibited. E-mail may contain viruses. Before opening attachments please check them for viruses and defects. While MindTree Limited (MindTree) has put in place checks to minimize the risks, MindTree will not be responsible for any viruses or defects or any forwarded attachments emanating either from within MindTree or outside. Please note that e-mails are susceptible to change and MindTree shall not be liable for any improper, untimely or incomplete transmission. MindTree reserves the right to monitor and review the content of all messages sent to or from MindTree e-mail address. Messages sent to or from this e-mail address may be stored on the MindTree e-mail system or else where. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081208/d2e8ccf3/attachment.html From michael.haertl at iis.fraunhofer.de Mon Dec 8 07:49:59 2008 From: michael.haertl at iis.fraunhofer.de (Michael Haertl) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 13:49:59 +0100 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [audio][AAC]max bits per frame In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <493D17F7.5050106@iis.fraunhofer.de> Hello Andy, first: the restriction is 6144 bits per audio channel, not per CPE. LFE's don't count, so for a 5.1 stream it is 30720 bits per frame. For HE-AAC(v2) this requirement is identical. The SBR and PS payloads have to be included (like every ID_FIL element) into this calculation. A legacy non-HE-AAC decoder would not know about any further restrictions and would simply skip the "unknown" ID_FIL element. So for a stream with PS you have a SCE and thus 6144 bits/frame. Regards, Michael Andy Quan wrote: > Hi, > According to ISO/IEC 14496-3:2001, 4.5.3.1 , every > SCE and CPE has a maximum bit length of 6144 and 12288 respectively. > Then does anyone know what if it is an AAC+v1 or AAC+v2 bitstream? > What are the contraints here for SCE, CPE, SBR & PS payload? > Basically, I need this to understand the maximum input buffer needed > for any kind of AAC/AAC+/AAC+v2 input. Thanks in advance. > -- > Regards, > Andy Quan From zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com Tue Dec 9 08:09:41 2008 From: zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com (Andy Quan) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 21:09:41 +0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [audio][AAC]max bits per frame In-Reply-To: <493D17F7.5050106@iis.fraunhofer.de> References: <493D17F7.5050106@iis.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: Michael, Thank you. You mentioned that LFE does not count. Do you mean it is included in 30720 bit calculation? Otherwise how shall I reserve bits for LFE? -- Regards, Andy Quan On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:49 PM, Michael Haertl < michael.haertl at iis.fraunhofer.de> wrote: > Hello Andy, > > first: the restriction is 6144 bits per audio channel, not per CPE. LFE's > don't count, so for a 5.1 stream it is 30720 bits per frame. > > For HE-AAC(v2) this requirement is identical. The SBR and PS payloads have > to be included (like every ID_FIL element) into this calculation. A legacy > non-HE-AAC decoder would not know about any further restrictions and would > simply skip the "unknown" ID_FIL element. > > So for a stream with PS you have a SCE and thus 6144 bits/frame. > > Regards, > Michael > > Andy Quan wrote: > >> Hi, >> According to ISO/IEC 14496-3:2001, 4.5.3.1 , every >> SCE and CPE has a maximum bit length of 6144 and 12288 respectively. >> Then does anyone know what if it is an AAC+v1 or AAC+v2 bitstream? >> What are the contraints here for SCE, CPE, SBR & PS payload? >> Basically, I need this to understand the maximum input buffer needed >> for any kind of AAC/AAC+/AAC+v2 input. Thanks in advance. >> -- Regards, >> Andy Quan >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081209/280cc338/attachment.html From michael.haertl at iis.fraunhofer.de Tue Dec 9 13:31:30 2008 From: michael.haertl at iis.fraunhofer.de (Michael Haertl) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 19:31:30 +0100 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [audio][AAC]max bits per frame In-Reply-To: References: <493D17F7.5050106@iis.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <493EB982.1080200@iis.fraunhofer.de> Hello Andy, yes, the LFE bits are included in the 30720 bits. Regards, Michael Andy Quan wrote: > Michael, > Thank you. > You mentioned that LFE does not count. Do you mean it is included in > 30720 bit calculation? Otherwise how shall I reserve bits for LFE? > > -- > Regards, > Andy Quan > On Mon, Dec 8, 2008 at 8:49 PM, Michael Haertl > > wrote: > > Hello Andy, > > first: the restriction is 6144 bits per audio channel, not per CPE. > LFE's don't count, so for a 5.1 stream it is 30720 bits per frame. > > For HE-AAC(v2) this requirement is identical. The SBR and PS > payloads have to be included (like every ID_FIL element) into this > calculation. A legacy non-HE-AAC decoder would not know about any > further restrictions and would simply skip the "unknown" ID_FIL element. > > So for a stream with PS you have a SCE and thus 6144 bits/frame. > > Regards, > Michael > > Andy Quan wrote: > > Hi, > According to ISO/IEC 14496-3:2001, 4.5.3.1 > >, every > > SCE and CPE has a maximum bit length of 6144 and 12288 > respectively. > Then does anyone know what if it is an AAC+v1 or AAC+v2 > bitstream? > What are the contraints here for SCE, CPE, SBR & PS payload? > Basically, I need this to understand the maximum input buffer > needed > for any kind of AAC/AAC+/AAC+v2 input. Thanks in advance. > -- Regards, > Andy Quan > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. > > Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php -- /* Michael Haertl, Fraunhofer IIS http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/amm */ From venkatrajkumar.kanduri at intel.com Tue Dec 9 23:18:44 2008 From: venkatrajkumar.kanduri at intel.com (Kanduri, Venkatrajkumar) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:48:44 +0530 Subject: [Mp4-tech] How to obtain the Average frame rate and bitrate of h.264 clip from the headers In-Reply-To: <200812071707.mB7H7QkP015377@lists1.magma.ca> References: <200812071707.mB7H7QkP015377@lists1.magma.ca> Message-ID: <3CA6C6D9F70D314CA34352990B57DA15129830E3@bgsmsx502.gar.corp.intel.com> Hi, I'm starting out new to AVC, and I have this question on how to obtain the Average frame rate and average bit rate of the h.264 stream. I am using the reference decoder to obtain the SPS, PPS, and Slice headers from the bit stream. I want to obtain the basic details of the clip from the headers and SEI messages if required. This includes the Frame rate and bit rate. There is a declared Bit rate and frame rate in the headers; I need some help to understand how to understand them 1) As I see in the standard the Average bit rate and average frame rate is provided as a part of SEI message "D.2.12 Sub-sequence layer characteristics SEI message semantics" But it is mentioned per sub-sequence. Q: I do not understand the idea of sub-sequence here. Is it the multiple streams in 1 bit-streams? So if there is only one stream can I use it to obtain the bit rate / frame rate for the stream? Q: How do I calculate the declared Bit rate and declared Frame rate of the video in the bit stream? Do I need to take the SEI messages also to do this? 2) For Bit rate there is another part of the Spec that provides it "E.2.2 HRD parameters semantics" bit_rate_value_minus1[ SchedSelIdx ] And this can come for the VCL HRD Parameters and Nal HRD Parameters Q: What does the SchedSelIdx represent here? Q: can I use this info for the Bit rate calculation I am new to the h.264 standard. --Raj -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081210/dade028d/attachment.html From Shevach.Riabtsev at zoran.com Thu Dec 11 03:24:26 2008 From: Shevach.Riabtsev at zoran.com (Shevach Riabtsev) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:24:26 +0200 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Video][H.264] Question on num_ref_frames In-Reply-To: <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CE1@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> References: <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CBA@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CC6@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CCE@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><244oh4lk912k9tocf4q1vct0bqt2a1fd6v@4ax.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CCF@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> <2BAAC5E4AF2518459F0AB5D92794204701B8850B@bur-exch-01.dolby.net> <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CD6@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CE1@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> Message-ID: <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88D29@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> Dear Expert According to the H.264 standard num_ref_frames should be in the range [0..MaxDpbSize]. If in a sequence header one set num_ref_frames=0. In my understanding this requires that all slices within a given sequence shall be I-slices. Am I right? Regards Shevach Riabtsev Zoran -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081211/affd29ee/attachment.html From garysull at windows.microsoft.com Thu Dec 11 10:59:53 2008 From: garysull at windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:59:53 -0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Video][H.264] Question on num_ref_frames In-Reply-To: <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88D29@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> References: <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CBA@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CC6@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CCE@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><244oh4lk912k9tocf4q1vct0bqt2a1fd6v@4ax.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CCF@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> <2BAAC5E4AF2518459F0AB5D92794204701B8850B@bur-exch-01.dolby.net> <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CD6@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CE1@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88D29@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> Message-ID: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31C198DF1BD@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Shevach et al, Yes, that is correct. Please see the statement, "When num_ref_frames is equal to 0, slice_type shall be equal to 2, 4, 7, or 9." (Incidentally, we are renaming that syntax element to "max_num_ref_frames".) Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of Shevach Riabtsev Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:24 AM To: mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Video][H.264] Question on num_ref_frames Dear Expert According to the H.264 standard num_ref_frames should be in the range [0..MaxDpbSize]. If in a sequence header one set num_ref_frames=0. In my understanding this requires that all slices within a given sequence shall be I-slices. Am I right? Regards Shevach Riabtsev Zoran -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081211/8f5bdf92/attachment.html From dthoang at yahoo.com Thu Dec 11 16:54:23 2008 From: dthoang at yahoo.com (Dzung Hoang) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:54:23 -0600 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Video][H.264] Question on num_ref_frames References: <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CBA@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CC6@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CCE@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><244oh4lk912k9tocf4q1vct0bqt2a1fd6v@4ax.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CCF@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><2BAAC5E4AF2518459F0AB5D92794204701B8850B@bur-exch-01.dolby.net><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CD6@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CE1@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88D29@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> Message-ID: [Mp4-tech] [Video][H.264] Question on num_ref_framesIn Section 7.4.3: When num_ref_frames is equal to 0, slice_type shall be equal to 2, 4, 7, or 9. Regards, - Dzung Hoang ----- Original Message ----- From: Shevach Riabtsev To: mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 2:24 AM Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Video][H.264] Question on num_ref_frames Dear Expert According to the H.264 standard num_ref_frames should be in the range [0..MaxDpbSize]. If in a sequence header one set num_ref_frames=0. In my understanding this requires that all slices within a given sequence shall be I-slices. Am I right? Regards Shevach Riabtsev Zoran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081211/eb83f76e/attachment.html From chitturi_sb at hotmail.com Fri Dec 12 11:27:44 2008 From: chitturi_sb at hotmail.com (chitturi suresh babu) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:27:44 +0000 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Nice shopping for you! Message-ID: Nice shopping for you!i would like to introduce a good company who trades mainly in electornic products.Now the company is under sales promotion,all the products are sold nearly at its cost.They provide the best service to customers,they provide you with original products of good quality,and what is more,the price is a surprising happiness to you!It is realy a good chance for shopping.just grasp the opportunity,Now or never!The web address: www.mmhdf.com _________________________________________________________________ Search for videos of Bollywood, Hollywood, Mollywood and every other wood, only on Live.com http://www.live.com/?scope=video&form=MICOAL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081212/5a1678c1/attachment.html From zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com Sun Dec 14 07:20:12 2008 From: zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com (Andy Quan) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:20:12 +0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [MP4 container]legal media contents within MP4 container? Message-ID: Hi, Is there any document describing media formats allowed within MP4 or 3GP container? Especially, is it legal to have H.264+MP3 as video and audio track respectively within a single MP4 or 3GP container? I find that some MP4 edit software is able to create such kind of stream but really suspect whether this is allowed... As I have never seen MP3 format wrapped in 3gp or MP4 container... -- Regards, Andy Quan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081214/178b60dc/attachment.html From paragchaurasia at rediffmail.com Sun Dec 14 10:20:55 2008 From: paragchaurasia at rediffmail.com (Parag Chaurasia) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 15:20:55 -0000 Subject: [Mp4-tech] AVC/H.264: Range of quant. parameter QPC Message-ID: <20081214153021.2284.qmail@f5mail-237-215.rediffmail.com> Hi, In the H.264 Specs section 8.5.8, it's mentioned in NOTE 1 that "QP quantisation parameter values QPC and QSC are always in the range of ?QpBdOffsetC to 51, inclusive." whereas Table 8-15 indicates that "maximum possible value of QPC is 39". So what is the range of QPC: ?QpBdOffsetC to 51 or ?QpBdOffsetC to 39? Thanks. Parag. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081214/596ad8e7/attachment.html From garysull at windows.microsoft.com Sun Dec 14 12:07:13 2008 From: garysull at windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:07:13 -0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] AVC/H.264: Range of quant. parameter QPC In-Reply-To: <20081214153021.2284.qmail@f5mail-237-215.rediffmail.com> References: <20081214153021.2284.qmail@f5mail-237-215.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31F2BBB1BE8@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Parag Chaurasia et al, Interesting. It appears that 39 is the correct upper limit for QPc and QSc. Ideally, that NOTE should be corrected (although, strictly speaking, it does not make an incorrect statement). Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of Parag Chaurasia Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 7:30 AM To: mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] AVC/H.264: Range of quant. parameter QPC Hi, In the H.264 Specs section 8.5.8, it's mentioned in NOTE 1 that "QP quantisation parameter values QPC and QSC are always in the range of ?QpBdOffsetC to 51, inclusive." whereas Table 8-15 indicates that "maximum possible value of QPC is 39". So what is the range of QPC: ?QpBdOffsetC to 51 or ?QpBdOffsetC to 39? Thanks. Parag. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081214/5d768ffb/attachment.html From garysull at windows.microsoft.com Sun Dec 14 12:50:53 2008 From: garysull at windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 09:50:53 -0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [MP4 container]legal media contents within MP4 container? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31F2BBB1BEE@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Andy Quan et al, I believe there is basically no limit on the media formats allowed within such a container. You can even invent your own media format and put it into the file if you wish, provided you do so in a conforming way. Whether any given product application will play what is in the file is a different question. However, I am an amateur on the file format topic. For authority, we may need the voice of Mr. Singer. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of Andy Quan Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:20 AM To: mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] [MP4 container]legal media contents within MP4 container? Hi, Is there any document describing media formats allowed within MP4 or 3GP container? Especially, is it legal to have H.264+MP3 as video and audio track respectively within a single MP4 or 3GP container? I find that some MP4 edit software is able to create such kind of stream but really suspect whether this is allowed... As I have never seen MP3 format wrapped in 3gp or MP4 container... -- Regards, Andy Quan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081214/21ea3839/attachment.html From paragchaurasia at rediffmail.com Mon Dec 15 00:38:56 2008 From: paragchaurasia at rediffmail.com (Parag Chaurasia) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 05:38:56 -0000 Subject: [Mp4-tech] AVC/H.264: Range of quant. parameter QPC Message-ID: <20081215054820.8789.qmail@f5mail-237-204.rediffmail.com> Hi Gary, Thanks for clarifying. Can you please explain what does it mean by "although, strictly speaking, it does not make an incorrect statement". Warm Regards, Parag. On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 Gary Sullivan wrote : >Parag Chaurasia et al, > >Interesting. It appears that 39 is the correct upper limit for QPc and QSc. Ideally, that NOTE should be corrected (although, strictly speaking, it does not make an incorrect statement). > >Best Regards, > >Gary Sullivan > >________________________________ > From: mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of Parag Chaurasia >Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 7:30 AM >To: mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org >Subject: [Mp4-tech] AVC/H.264: Range of quant. parameter QPC > > >Hi, > In the H.264 Specs section 8.5.8, it's mentioned in NOTE 1 that "QP >quantisation parameter values QPC and QSC are always in the range of ?QpBdOffsetC to 51, inclusive." whereas Table 8-15 indicates that "maximum possible value of QPC is 39". >So what is the range of QPC: ?QpBdOffsetC to 51 or ?QpBdOffsetC to 39? >Thanks. >Parag. > > > >_______________________________________________ >NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. > >Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081215/816a8afd/attachment.html From richard at sotke.de Mon Dec 15 03:43:12 2008 From: richard at sotke.de (Richard Sotke) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 09:43:12 +0100 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [MP4 container]legal media contents within MP4 container? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200812150943.14462.richard@sotke.de> Am Sunday 14 December 2008 13:20:12 schrieb Andy Quan: > Hi, > Is there any document describing media formats allowed within MP4 or 3GP > container? Especially, is it legal to have H.264+MP3 as video and audio > track respectively within a single MP4 or 3GP container? H.264+MP3 are allowed in the MP4 File Format. But for better compatibility I would use AAC. In the 3GPP File Format only H.264 is allowed, as far as I know. Take a look in the latest 3GPP File Format release for more information. > I find that some MP4 edit software is able to create such kind of stream > but really suspect whether this is allowed... As I have never seen MP3 > format wrapped in 3gp or MP4 container... You can find a list of registered ObjectTypeIndication for the MP4 File Format here: http://www.mp4ra.org/object.html A list of registered Code Points for other ISO Media based File Formats like 3gp or the format used by Apple iTunes can be found here: http://www.mp4ra.org/codecs.html Regards Richard From garysull at windows.microsoft.com Mon Dec 15 11:05:56 2008 From: garysull at windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:05:56 -0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] AVC/H.264: Range of quant. parameter QPC In-Reply-To: <20081215054820.8789.qmail@f5mail-237-204.rediffmail.com> References: <20081215054820.8789.qmail@f5mail-237-204.rediffmail.com> Message-ID: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31F2BBB1C79@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Parage Chaurasia et al, +> Can you please explain what does it mean by "although, strictly speaking, it does not make an incorrect statement". Very simple. The range from -QpBdOffsetC to 39 is within the range from -QpBdOffsetC to 51, so it is not an incorrect statement to say that QPc is always within the range from -QpBdOffsetC to 51. It would also not be an incorrect statement to say that QPc is always within the range from -1024 to 1024. Those are all true statements. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: Parag Chaurasia [mailto:paragchaurasia at rediffmail.com] Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:48 PM To: Gary Sullivan Cc: mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org; heiko.schwarz at hhi.fraunhofer.de Subject: Re: RE: [Mp4-tech] AVC/H.264: Range of quant. parameter QPC Hi Gary, Thanks for clarifying. Can you please explain what does it mean by "although, strictly speaking, it does not make an incorrect statement". Warm Regards, Parag. On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 Gary Sullivan wrote : >Parag Chaurasia et al, > >Interesting. It appears that 39 is the correct upper limit for QPc and QSc. Ideally, that NOTE should be corrected (although, strictly speaking, it does not make an incorrect statement). > >Best Regards, > >Gary Sullivan > >________________________________ > From: mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of Parag Chaurasia >Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 7:30 AM >To: mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org >Subject: [Mp4-tech] AVC/H.264: Range of quant. parameter QPC > > >Hi, > In the H.264 Specs section 8.5.8, it's mentioned in NOTE 1 that "QP >quantisation parameter values QPC and QSC are always in the range of ?QpBdOffsetC to 51, inclusive." whereas Table 8-15 indicates that "maximum possible value of QPC is 39". >So what is the range of QPC: ?QpBdOffsetC to 51 or ?QpBdOffsetC to 39? >Thanks. >Parag. > > > >_______________________________________________ >NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. > >Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php [http://imadworks.rediff.com/cgi-bin/AdWorks/adimage.cgi/2680863_2664969/creative_2668432.gif] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081215/b5bed851/attachment.html From singer at apple.com Mon Dec 15 14:01:31 2008 From: singer at apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:01:31 -0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [MP4 container]legal media contents within MP4 container? In-Reply-To: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31F2BBB1BEE@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windep loy.ntdev.microsoft.com> References: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31F2BBB1BEE@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windepl oy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Message-ID: Indeed, you have to be careful to distinguish between what is permitted in the container, and what is required to be interpreted. The *container* specs only talk about features of the container for various 'profiles'. However, the *integration* specs from say 3GPP can and do talk about required support for various codecs (depending on which sub-systems you also claim to support). In general, therefore, there are few file format profiles which also mandate codecs; 3G is close to an exception. The file format specs are also liberal, in that you can put all sorts of things in there; you just need to know which environment you want decoding in, and what is required there. We try to do all the codec-in-MP4 specs in such a way that you can technically put any codec in 3GPP, MP4 etc. files. Terminals would normally claim to support (e.g.) "AMR audio and MPEG-4 AAC, combined with H.263 video xxx profile or MPEG-4 Part 2 simple profile at level 3, in MP4 or 3GP files to the 'iso2' brand". At 9:50 -0800 14/12/08, Gary Sullivan wrote: >Andy Quan et al, > >I believe there is basically no limit on the media formats allowed >within such a container. You can even invent your own media format >and put it into the file if you wish, provided you do so in a >conforming way. Whether any given product application will play >what is in the file is a different question. > >However, I am an amateur on the file format topic. For authority, >we may need the voice of Mr. Singer. > >Best Regards, > >Gary Sullivan > > >From: mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org >[mailto:mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of Andy Quan >Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:20 AM >To: mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org >Subject: [Mp4-tech] [MP4 container]legal media contents within MP4 container? > >Hi, >Is there any document describing media formats allowed within MP4 or >3GP container? Especially, is it legal to have H.264+MP3 as video >and audio track respectively within a single MP4 or 3GP container? >I find that some MP4 edit software is able to create such kind of >stream but really suspect whether this is allowed... As I have never >seen MP3 format wrapped in 3gp or MP4 container... > >-- >Regards, >Andy Quan -- David Singer Multimedia Standards, Apple Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081215/4cf3df27/attachment.html From lakshman97 at yahoo.com Mon Dec 15 02:58:42 2008 From: lakshman97 at yahoo.com (Lakshman) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 23:58:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mp4-tech] EVRC in 3GPP2 File format Message-ID: <734833.841.qm@web110504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi, Can someone please send me a link of a tool which can generate .3g2 clips with EVRC and QCELP('sqcp' sample entry) data. I'm looking for a muxer which can take .pkt format files(EVRC) and generate .3g2 files. Thanks and regards, -Lakshman From mrison at hotmail.com Mon Dec 15 15:49:12 2008 From: mrison at hotmail.com (Mark RISON) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:49:12 +0000 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Differences between mp41 and mp42 brands Message-ID: Hello, I understand that the mp42 brand indicates conformance to ISO 14496-14 (and therefore ISO 14496-12 on which it is based), while the mp41 brand (or absence of an ftyp box) indicates conformance to ISO 14496-1 section 13. Is a comparison of these two available somewhere? That is, a list of the substantive differences between a file which conforms to the mp41 brand but not the mp42 brand, and vice-versa. Mark -- CPC/IP - A TCP/IP stack for Amstrad CPCs -- http://www.cepece.info/cpcip/ "Z88 vs CPC? Christ. How did we miss that platform war?" -- http://www.ntk.net/index.cgi?b=02000-01-28&l=111#l _________________________________________________________________ Live Search presents Big Snap II - win John Lewis vouchers http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/117442309/direct/01/ From zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com Mon Dec 15 20:29:00 2008 From: zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com (Andy Quan) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 09:29:00 +0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [MP4 container]legal media contents within MP4 container? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dave, Thank you! That's cool. Is there any specific documentation I can refer to about the container's capability for various 'profiles'? -- Regards, Andy Quan On 12/16/08, Dave Singer wrote: > > Indeed, you have to be careful to distinguish between what is permitted > in the container, and what is required to be interpreted. > > > The *container* specs only talk about features of the container for various > 'profiles'. However, the *integration* specs from say 3GPP can and do talk > about required support for various codecs (depending on which sub-systems > you also claim to support). > > > In general, therefore, there are few file format profiles which also > mandate codecs; 3G is close to an exception. > > > The file format specs are also liberal, in that you can put all sorts of > things in there; you just need to know which environment you want decoding > in, and what is required there. We try to do all the codec-in-MP4 specs in > such a way that you can technically put any codec in 3GPP, MP4 etc. files. > > > Terminals would normally claim to support (e.g.) "AMR audio and MPEG-4 AAC, > combined with H.263 video xxx profile or MPEG-4 Part 2 simple profile at > level 3, in MP4 or 3GP files to the 'iso2' brand". > > > > > At 9:50 -0800 14/12/08, Gary Sullivan wrote: > > Andy Quan* et al,* > > > > I believe there is basically no limit on the media formats allowed within > such a container. You can even invent your own media format and put it into > the file if you wish, provided you do so in a conforming way. Whether any > given product application will play what is in the file is a different > question. > > > > However, I am an amateur on the file format topic. For authority, we may > need the voice of Mr. Singer. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Gary Sullivan > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org [mailto: > mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org]* On Behalf Of* Andy Quan > *Sent:* Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:20 AM > *To:* mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org > *Subject:* [Mp4-tech] [MP4 container]legal media contents within MP4 > container? > > Hi, > > Is there any document describing media formats allowed within MP4 or 3GP > container? Especially, is it legal to have H.264+MP3 as video and audio > track respectively within a single MP4 or 3GP container? > > I find that some MP4 edit software is able to create such kind of stream > but really suspect whether this is allowed... As I have never seen MP3 > format wrapped in 3gp or MP4 container... > > > -- > Regards, > Andy Quan > > > > > > > -- > > David Singer > Multimedia Standards, Apple Inc. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081216/aa24ad7a/attachment.html From singer at apple.com Mon Dec 15 22:38:11 2008 From: singer at apple.com (Dave Singer) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:38:11 -0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [MP4 container]legal media contents within MP4 container? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: At 9:29 +0800 16/12/08, Andy Quan wrote: >Dave, >Thank you! That's cool. Is there any specific documentation I can >refer to about the container's capability for various 'profiles'? The (upcoming) 2008 edition annex is the best place for the container spec. itself. > >-- >Regards, >Andy Quan > >On 12/16/08, Dave Singer <singer at apple.com> wrote: > >Indeed, you have to be careful to distinguish between what is >permitted in the container, and what is required to be interpreted. > > >The *container* specs only talk about features of the container for >various 'profiles'. However, the *integration* specs from say 3GPP >can and do talk about required support for various codecs (depending >on which sub-systems you also claim to support). > > >In general, therefore, there are few file format profiles which also >mandate codecs; 3G is close to an exception. > > >The file format specs are also liberal, in that you can put all >sorts of things in there; you just need to know which environment >you want decoding in, and what is required there. We try to do all >the codec-in-MP4 specs in such a way that you can technically put >any codec in 3GPP, MP4 etc. files. > > >Terminals would normally claim to support (e.g.) "AMR audio and >MPEG-4 AAC, combined with H.263 video xxx profile or MPEG-4 Part 2 >simple profile at level 3, in MP4 or 3GP files to the 'iso2' brand". > > > > >At 9:50 -0800 14/12/08, Gary Sullivan wrote: > >>Andy Quan et al, >> > > >I believe there is basically no limit on the media formats allowed >within such a container. You can even invent your own media format >and put it into the file if you wish, provided you do so in a >conforming way. Whether any given product application will play >what is in the file is a different question. > > > >However, I am an amateur on the file format topic. For authority, >we may need the voice of Mr. Singer. > > > >Best Regards, > > > >Gary Sullivan > > > >From: >mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org >[mailto:mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org] >On Behalf Of Andy Quan >Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 4:20 AM >To: mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org >Subject: [Mp4-tech] [MP4 container]legal media contents within MP4 container? > >Hi, > >Is there any document describing media formats allowed within MP4 or >3GP container? Especially, is it legal to have H.264+MP3 as video >and audio track respectively within a single MP4 or 3GP container? > >I find that some MP4 edit software is able to create such kind of >stream but really suspect whether this is allowed... As I have never >seen MP3 format wrapped in 3gp or MP4 container... > > >-- >Regards, >Andy Quan > > > > > >-- >David Singer >Multimedia Standards, Apple Inc. -- David Singer Multimedia Standards, Apple Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081215/4dc400d6/attachment.html From omiikkul at cc.hut.fi Tue Dec 16 19:32:06 2008 From: omiikkul at cc.hut.fi (Ossi Miikkulainen) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:32:06 +0200 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Mpeg4 stream to dv? Message-ID: <49484886.2@cc.hut.fi> Hi! I work at the Helsinki University of Technology at brain research department and I have a quite simple need for mpeg4-conversion. I need a program to read a mpeg4-stream from a surveilance-type camera and to record it at some format which has a some kind of realtime clock with it. I think that dv is a good choice because of availability of tools and embedded SMPTE timestamp. (The use is to take a MEG capture and video of a person at a same time and then try to find physical hints from an upcoming epilepsy seizure from a MEG-data and a video. Usually upcoming seizure can be seen from a MEG data and from cramps of certain facial muscles.) The problem is that I haven't found a single application (besides of FinalCut Pro) that can read an mpeg4 stream and recode it to some other format (preferrably dv) and not result either in crash or a video with wrong amount of frames, wrong fps, wrong length of video etc. Does anyone here have any idea what to try or who could I ask for such a program? (platform would be preferred to be linux, but it really doesn't matter. A single computer dedicated to this is still cheaper than getting a new MEG.) Best regards -Ossi Miikkulainen From devilal at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 08:23:25 2008 From: devilal at gmail.com (Devilal) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:53:25 +0530 Subject: [Mp4-tech] AAC-LC Encoder - Help Needed Message-ID: Dear Experts,I started working AAC-LC Encoder. I am facing a few problems:- a) I am not able to run ISO encoder properly. I am using "mp4mcEnc" and Microsoft visual Studio 2005 (windows environment). I am sure what all preprocessor defines to be used, like USE_AFSP. The downloaded workspace does not have MS Visual Studio workspace, so I created one and added the source files. It is not giving correct output when I try to encode a wave file (16 bit PCM data with wave header). b) Conformace testing of the encoder I develop:- What I understand is I take up a reference-wave-file and encode it using my encoder and then decode it using the ISO decoder and compare with the reference-wave-file using SSNR test. (I am really not sure if this is the correct way of testing an encoder, Please comment and suggest the correct method). c)The reference wave files I downloaded for encoder testing from this location ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4 at ftp.iis.fhg.de/mpeg4audio-conformance are (I guess) 24 bit wave files and I need 16 bit ones. Shall I use some converter available on the net to convert them? Waiting for the response. Regards, Devilal Sharma -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081218/ec112f39/attachment.html From ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de Thu Dec 18 11:35:07 2008 From: ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:35:07 +0100 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Re: AAC-LC Encoder - Help Needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <494A7BBB.2010208@iis.fraunhofer.de> Devilal wrote: > Dear Experts, > I started working AAC-LC Encoder. > I am facing a few problems:- > a) I am not able to run ISO encoder properly. I am using "mp4mcEnc" > and Microsoft visual Studio 2005 (windows environment). I am sure what > all preprocessor defines to be used, like USE_AFSP. Such knowledge is always good. ;-) > The downloaded workspace does not have MS Visual Studio workspace, Hmm, on my refsoft copy I spotted at least the following: mp4mcDec/win32/mp4audec_mc/mp4audec_mc.dsp This file was touched the last time in August 2004. > so I created one and added the source files. It is not giving correct > output when I try to encode a wave file (16 bit PCM data with wave > header). Hmm - with MSVS you are on your own, sorry. Only makefiles for Linux are actively supported - and I guess Solaris and Cygwin will also work out smoothly (although I haven't this tested since a while). > b) Conformace testing of the encoder I develop:- What I understand is > I take up a reference-wave-file and encode it using my encoder and > then decode it using the ISO decoder and compare with the > reference-wave-file using SSNR test. (I am really not sure if this is > the correct way of testing an encoder, Please comment and suggest the > correct method). Your understanding is wrong. There is no encoder conformance testing like this. For a clearer understanding on conformance testing I suggest to have a look into ISO/IEC14496-4. > > c)The reference wave files I downloaded for encoder testing from this > location ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4 at ftp.iis.fhg.de/mpeg4audio-conformance are > (I guess) 24 bit wave files and I need 16 bit ones. Why? > Shall I use some converter available on the net to convert them? If you really need them, that would be the way to go. Alternatively you could write your own converter. > > Waiting for the response. Here we go! Best regards, Ralph -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 6167 Fraunhofer IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 6099 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/amm/ From zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com Fri Dec 19 00:02:21 2008 From: zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com (Andy Quan) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:02:21 +0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Audio]MPEG-surround streams Message-ID: Hi, Anybody knows where I can find some MPEG-surround bitstreams? Thanks in advance! -- Regards, Andy Quan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081219/61982ad8/attachment.html From zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com Fri Dec 19 00:21:40 2008 From: zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com (Andy Quan) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 13:21:40 +0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Re: [Audio]MPEG-surround streams In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: BTW, is there any established application/service where MPEG-surround streams are deployed? I mean in the real commercial world ... On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:02 PM, Andy Quan wrote: > Hi, > Anybody knows where I can find some MPEG-surround bitstreams? Thanks in > advance! > > -- > Regards, > Andy Quan > -- Regards, Andy Quan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081219/c008a02e/attachment.html From ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de Fri Dec 19 10:28:02 2008 From: ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 16:28:02 +0100 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Re: [Audio] MPEG-surround streams In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <494BBD82.7050907@iis.fraunhofer.de> Andy Quan wrote: > Hi, > Anybody knows where I can find some MPEG-surround bitstreams? Thanks > in advance! > Hi Andy, the MPS conformance streams can be found here: ftp://mpaudconf:adif2mp4 at ftp.iis.fraunhofer.de/mpegDmps-conformance/ Ralph -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 6167 Fraunhofer IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 6099 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/amm/ From ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de Fri Dec 19 11:46:27 2008 From: ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:46:27 +0100 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Re: [Audio] MPEG-surround streams In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <494BCFE3.9050008@iis.fraunhofer.de> Andy Quan wrote: > BTW, is there any established application/service where MPEG-surround > streams are deployed? I mean in the real commercial world ... RockAntenne (a German broadcasting station: http://www.rockantenne.de/) is broadcasting in DAB Surround 24/7. Best regards, Ralph -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 6167 Fraunhofer IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 6099 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/amm/ From zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 04:29:14 2008 From: zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com (Andy Quan) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:29:14 +0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Re: [Audio] MPEG-surround streams In-Reply-To: <494BCFE3.9050008@iis.fraunhofer.de> References: <494BCFE3.9050008@iis.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: Thanks, Ralph. 2 more questions here: 1. Is there any reference SW codes for MPEG surround? 2. Where can I get its specification? -- Regards, Andy Quan On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 12:46 AM, Ralph Sperschneider < ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de> wrote: > Andy Quan wrote: > >> BTW, is there any established application/service where MPEG-surround >> streams are deployed? I mean in the real commercial world ... >> > > > RockAntenne (a German broadcasting station: http://www.rockantenne.de/) is > broadcasting in DAB Surround 24/7. > > Best regards, > > Ralph > > -- > Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 6167 > Fraunhofer IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 6099 > Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto: > ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de > D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/amm/ > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081221/8aa87a35/attachment.html From Shevach.Riabtsev at zoran.com Sun Dec 21 10:03:28 2008 From: Shevach.Riabtsev at zoran.com (Shevach Riabtsev) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:03:28 +0200 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Video][H.264] Can IDR-slice serve random access point In-Reply-To: <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88D29@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> References: <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CBA@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CC6@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CCE@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><244oh4lk912k9tocf4q1vct0bqt2a1fd6v@4ax.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CCF@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> <2BAAC5E4AF2518459F0AB5D92794204701B8850B@bur-exch-01.dolby.net> <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CD6@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CE1@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88D29@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> Message-ID: <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88D39@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> Dear Expert Originally I supposed that IDR slice is random access point in H.264 stream. Indeed, in order a decoder to enter H264 streaming media it is enough to find an IDR slice and start decoding. But more deep speculations reveal that IDR-slice might not be a good random access point. Let's consider two situations: 1) An IDR slice uses pic_parameter_set_id which has been defined prior the IDR slice. Consequently upon entrance to the IDR picture a decoder can't start processing since the required picture parameters are not available. 2) An IDR slice is a bottom slice of a primary picture while the top field is P-slice. In this case a decoder can only decode the bottom field while the top one remains un-decoded because the top field is signaled before the IDR-picture. Are there any restrictions in the standard which invalidate the above situations? Regards Shevach Riabtsev Zoran -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081221/1aaca046/attachment.html From garysull at windows.microsoft.com Sun Dec 21 14:39:03 2008 From: garysull at windows.microsoft.com (Gary Sullivan) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 11:39:03 -0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Video][H.264] Can IDR-slice serve random access point In-Reply-To: <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88D39@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> References: <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CBA@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CC6@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CCE@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><244oh4lk912k9tocf4q1vct0bqt2a1fd6v@4ax.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CCF@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> <2BAAC5E4AF2518459F0AB5D92794204701B8850B@bur-exch-01.dolby.net> <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CD6@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CE1@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88D29@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88D39@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> Message-ID: <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31F72ED17B9@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Shevach Riabtsev et al, The standard contains features that enable an encoder to construct a bitstream that is "friendly" to random-access (and other "trick mode") functionality. However, the standard does not force encoders to be friendly -- it just gives the encoders various ways to act in a friendly manner if the encoder chooses to do so. It is true that having the picture parameter set and sequence parameter set available to the decoder is necessary to begin decoding in the middle of at bitstream. Having an IDR picture can also be useful, but is not necessary. There are other ways to enable random access functionality -- such as by using a "recovery point SEI message". Your second comment does not seem correct. One point of clarification is that a field pair that contains an IDR field is only considered "complementary" if the IDR field is the first of the two fields in decoding order. Your example appears to be constructed with two fields where the second one is the IDR field -- that does not make sense, from the perspective of the languange of the standard for purposes of the pairing of fields for such purposes as decoded picture buffering. Another issue is that your example seems to somewhat mix the concept of fields being top or bottom fields with the concept of fields being first or second in their decoding order. The standard does not require a top field to be first in decoding order, relative to a complementary bottom field. Note further that the idea of pairing of the fields in the standard is primarily a matter of DPB storage capacity modeling and the use of frames and fields as references for the decoding processes of subsequent pictures in the bitstream. It is not necessarily synonymous with some idea of fields belonging to frames from the perspective of the input to an encoder or the output of the display process. Note that the display process and encoding process are outside the scope of the standard. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ________________________________ From: mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of Shevach Riabtsev Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:03 AM To: mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Video][H.264] Can IDR-slice serve random access point Dear Expert Originally I supposed that IDR slice is random access point in H.264 stream. Indeed, in order a decoder to enter H264 streaming media it is enough to find an IDR slice and start decoding. But more deep speculations reveal that IDR-slice might not be a good random access point. Let?s consider two situations: 1) An IDR slice uses pic_parameter_set_id which has been defined prior the IDR slice. Consequently upon entrance to the IDR picture a decoder can?t start processing since the required picture parameters are not available. 2) An IDR slice is a bottom slice of a primary picture while the top field is P-slice. In this case a decoder can only decode the bottom field while the top one remains un-decoded because the top field is signaled before the IDR-picture. Are there any restrictions in the standard which invalidate the above situations? Regards Shevach Riabtsev Zoran -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081221/282f6d45/attachment.html From ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de Mon Dec 22 05:44:56 2008 From: ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de (Ralph Sperschneider) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 11:44:56 +0100 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Re: [Audio] MPEG-surround streams In-Reply-To: References: <494BCFE3.9050008@iis.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: <494F6FA8.3070107@iis.fraunhofer.de> Andy Quan wrote: > Thanks, Ralph. > 2 more questions here: > 1. Is there any reference SW codes for MPEG surround? Yes! > 2. Where can I get its specification? http://www.iso.ch/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=46469 (Sorry, not (yet?) publicly available.) Merry Christmas, Ralph -- Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 6167 Fraunhofer IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 6099 Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto:ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/amm/ From dthoang at yahoo.com Sun Dec 21 19:22:31 2008 From: dthoang at yahoo.com (Dzung Hoang) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:22:31 -0600 Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Video][H.264] Can IDR-slice serve random access point References: <91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CBA@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CC6@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CCE@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><244oh4lk912k9tocf4q1vct0bqt2a1fd6v@4ax.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CCF@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><2BAAC5E4AF2518459F0AB5D92794204701B8850B@bur-exch-01.dolby.net><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CD6@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88CE1@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88D29@zmlex.zml.zoran.com><91C4B16D6D58C541BF2F841D27F82536F88D39@zmlex.zml.zoran.com> <406D6FEFCBB98643A34170C59E1ABEF31F72ED17B9@NA-EXMSG-W601.wingroup.windeploy.ntdev.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <49ECE5ECD7FD44329B636EE756FE4168@DZUNGLAPTOP> [Mp4-tech] [Video][H.264] Can IDR-slice serve random access pointIt seems to me that the standard is sufficiently clear about this. See 7.4.1.2, especially Notes 2 and 3. NOTE 2 ? Because an IDR access unit begins a new coded video sequence and an activated sequence parameter set RBSP must remain active for the entire coded video sequence, a sequence parameter set RBSP can only be activated by a buffering period SEI message when the buffering period SEI message is part of an IDR access unit. NOTE 3 ? If picture parameter set RBSP or sequence parameter set RBSP are conveyed within the bitstream, these constraints impose an order constraint on the NAL units that contain the picture parameter set RBSP or sequence parameter set RBSP, respectively. Otherwise (picture parameter set RBSP or sequence parameter set RBSP are conveyed by other means not specified in this Recommendation | International Standard), they must be available to the decoding process in a timely fashion such that these constraints are obeyed. Regards, - Dzung Hoang ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Sullivan To: Shevach Riabtsev ; mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 1:39 PM Subject: RE: [Mp4-tech] [Video][H.264] Can IDR-slice serve random access point Shevach Riabtsev et al, The standard contains features that enable an encoder to construct a bitstream that is "friendly" to random-access (and other "trick mode") functionality. However, the standard does not force encoders to be friendly -- it just gives the encoders various ways to act in a friendly manner if the encoder chooses to do so. It is true that having the picture parameter set and sequence parameter set available to the decoder is necessary to begin decoding in the middle of at bitstream. Having an IDR picture can also be useful, but is not necessary. There are other ways to enable random access functionality -- such as by using a "recovery point SEI message". Your second comment does not seem correct. One point of clarification is that a field pair that contains an IDR field is only considered "complementary" if the IDR field is the first of the two fields in decoding order. Your example appears to be constructed with two fields where the second one is the IDR field -- that does not make sense, from the perspective of the languange of the standard for purposes of the pairing of fields for such purposes as decoded picture buffering. Another issue is that your example seems to somewhat mix the concept of fields being top or bottom fields with the concept of fields being first or second in their decoding order. The standard does not require a top field to be first in decoding order, relative to a complementary bottom field. Note further that the idea of pairing of the fields in the standard is primarily a matter of DPB storage capacity modeling and the use of frames and fields as references for the decoding processes of subsequent pictures in the bitstream. It is not necessarily synonymous with some idea of fields belonging to frames from the perspective of the input to an encoder or the output of the display process. Note that the display process and encoding process are outside the scope of the standard. Best Regards, Gary Sullivan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org [mailto:mp4-tech-bounces at lists.mpegif.org] On Behalf Of Shevach Riabtsev Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 7:03 AM To: mp4-tech at lists.mpegif.org Subject: [Mp4-tech] [Video][H.264] Can IDR-slice serve random access point Dear Expert Originally I supposed that IDR slice is random access point in H.264 stream. Indeed, in order a decoder to enter H264 streaming media it is enough to find an IDR slice and start decoding. But more deep speculations reveal that IDR-slice might not be a good random access point. Let?s consider two situations: 1) An IDR slice uses pic_parameter_set_id which has been defined prior the IDR slice. Consequently upon entrance to the IDR picture a decoder can?t start processing since the required picture parameters are not available. 2) An IDR slice is a bottom slice of a primary picture while the top field is P-slice. In this case a decoder can only decode the bottom field while the top one remains un-decoded because the top field is signaled before the IDR-picture. Are there any restrictions in the standard which invalidate the above situations? Regards Shevach Riabtsev Zoran ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081221/9ccfc67b/attachment.html From Sandeep.Nayak at aricent.com Mon Dec 22 06:42:36 2008 From: Sandeep.Nayak at aricent.com (Sandeep H R) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:12:36 +0530 Subject: [MP4-Tech] MPEG4 ASP GMC Message-ID: Hi, I need help in efficient implementation of gmc, particularly sprite point 2, 3. Because of random access to memory I am forced to use frame buffer (which is external memory). This is causing performance issue in OMAP platform. Kindly give suggestion on how to get required reference data into internal memory and avoid access to frame buffer. Regards, Sandeep HR ________________________________ "DISCLAIMER: This message is proprietary to Aricent and is intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. It may contain privileged or confidential information and should not be circulated or used for any purpose other than for what it is intended. If you have received this message in error,please notify the originator immediately. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that you are strictly prohibited from using, copying, altering, or disclosing the contents of this message. Aricent accepts no responsibility for loss or damage arising from the use of the information transmitted by this email including damage from virus." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081222/140d8276/attachment.html From zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 11:39:31 2008 From: zhengyuan.quan at gmail.com (Andy Quan) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 00:39:31 +0800 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Re: [Audio] MPEG-surround streams In-Reply-To: <494F6FA8.3070107@iis.fraunhofer.de> References: <494BCFE3.9050008@iis.fraunhofer.de> <494F6FA8.3070107@iis.fraunhofer.de> Message-ID: Thanks. Merry Christmas and happy new year! On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Ralph Sperschneider < ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de> wrote: > Andy Quan wrote: > >> Thanks, Ralph. >> 2 more questions here: >> 1. Is there any reference SW codes for MPEG surround? >> > > Yes! > > 2. Where can I get its specification? >> > > > http://www.iso.ch/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=46469 > (Sorry, not (yet?) publicly available.) > > Merry Christmas, > > Ralph > > -- > Dipl.-Ing. Ralph Sperschneider | Phone: +49 9131 776 6167 > Fraunhofer IIS | Fax: +49 9131 776 6099 > Am Wolfsmantel 33 | mailto: > ralph.sperschneider at iis.fraunhofer.de > D 91058 Erlangen | http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/amm/ > > -- Regards, Andy Quan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081224/c8733207/attachment.html From engrsajidanwar at yahoo.com Sun Dec 28 22:11:57 2008 From: engrsajidanwar at yahoo.com (Sajid Anwar SoEE SNU) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:11:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Mp4-tech] Post Processing Filters in MPEG 4 SP Decoder Message-ID: <195563.22383.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Dear Experts, My question is related with Post Processing Filters (deblocking etc) in MPEG 4 SP Decoding. Is the POST PROCESSING Filtering a compulsory part of MPEG4 SP Decoding ??? We know that in case of MPEG4 Part-10 (H.264) it is compulsory. Kind Regards, Sajid Anwar -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/mp4-tech/attachments/20081228/02ef35f0/attachment.html From herbert.thoma at iis.fraunhofer.de Mon Dec 29 04:38:17 2008 From: herbert.thoma at iis.fraunhofer.de (Herbert Thoma) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 10:38:17 +0100 Subject: [Mp4-tech] Post Processing Filters in MPEG 4 SP Decoder In-Reply-To: <195563.22383.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <195563.22383.qm@web34802.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49589A89.8090205@iis.fraunhofer.de> Sajid Anwar SoEE SNU schrieb: > > Dear Experts, > > My question is related with Post Processing Filters (deblocking etc) in > MPEG 4 SP Decoding. Is the POST PROCESSING Filtering a compulsory part > of MPEG4 SP Decoding ??? We know that in case of MPEG4 Part-10 (H.264) > it is compulsory. No, the postprocessing filters in MPEG-4 part 2 are not mandatory. Annex F of ISO/IEC 14496-2, which describes one possible implementation of a deblocking and a deringing filter, is clearly marked as informative. Kind regards, Herbert. > *Kind Regards, > * > Sajid Anwar > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NOTE: Please use clear subject lines for your posts. Include [audio, [video], [systems], [general] or another apppropriate identifier to indicate the type of question you have. > > Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php -- Herbert Thoma Dipl.-Ing., MBA Head of Video Group Multimedia Realtime Systems Department Fraunhofer IIS Am Wolfsmantel 33, 91058 Erlangen, Germany Phone: +49-9131-776-6130 Fax: +49-9131-776-6099 email: tma at iis.fhg.de www: http://www.iis.fhg.de/